The player-moderated Ancient Cyclops list is a disaster.

[Taiku]

Originally Posted by adruidarkly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn’t what you do. I don’t know what people are doing, but if it’s this then don’t. Camp rules require next up to be there in person or able to arrive before next PH or spawn. That wrong behavior is what started this whole thread iirc

The list only determines who of two or more people present have precedence. It is a player agreement with no real teeth on its own. That is all.

Well this would certainly be the "sane" way to do it, but I don't think this is how a lot of people interpret the list, sadly. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

THIS ^^

No AFK check = no need to be at camp = list goes to 100+.

I have a question. What do you want to do once you get your item after a super long camp and you're tired? You want to go through 20-30 people to individually send tells and see if they are online...

Sounds like long camps for a single sought after drop without /list function are working out real well [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you ever tried to camp Jboots in OoT before you try to make a poor argument about /list camps?

Yes, the list sometimes went to 100+ but in reality it’s much less than that since people frequently get skipped. People sign up and go about their lives as normal. Only once they get close to the top they need to start paying attention.

I’ve done both the old /list camp and the OoT one. I had to attempt the Najena one twice (bad streak of no drops) with over 50 hours clicking an an afk-box total. The OoT one despite a bad streak was about 10 hours of actually being in OoT. Some got theirs in literal minutes.

There has been the odd drama but, really, it has worked out surprisingly well.

The downside is that it may take several days or up to a few weeks depending on your life schedule and priorities before you get the camp at a suitable time instead of being skipped.

Also you rarely have to message more than a a few people before someone is online or even at the AC camp already. Compared to clicking AFK-boxes it’s a blessing.

[Castle2.0]

I’ve done both the old /list camp and the OoT one. I had to attempt the Najena one twice (bad streak of no drops) with over 50 hours clicking an an afk-box total. The OoT one despite a bad streak was about 10 hours of actually being in OoT. Some got theirs in literal minutes.

You had a longer than normal camp at Drelzna /list. You had a nice experience in OOT. You don't like clicking AFK boxes. Well... sounds like we need to do away with lists - the overwhelming evidence says so.

If the list is 100+ and you "rarely have to message more than a a few people" to get to the next person, that sounds like a really long list.

I wrote a whole thread on why items with a lot of interest that don't use the /list function blow up and make it take longer for everyone. See here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=368086

If there is no cost to being on the /list, you will have more people on the list. When the cost of any good goes down, demand goes up. Pretty straight-forward.

You're also comparing a time when fewer people had jboots: there is always a premium cost to get items earlier. Now you can do OOT or Sro. There's no comparison. The vast majority of main toons in raiding guilds have jboots, and even some with jboots on a few alts. Demand is lower now.

We have to look at the topic holistically, not one just one person's anecdote. Player-held listens are burdensome, prone to "error", and will always be larger than a /list that requires you to be there proving you're not AFK.

[sajbert]

Originally Posted by Castle2.0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You had a longer than normal camp at Drelzna /list. You had a nice experience in OOT. You don't like clicking AFK boxes. Well... sounds like we need to do away with lists - the overwhelming evidence says so.

If the list is 100+ and you "rarely have to message more than a a few people" to get to the next person, that sounds like a really long list.

I wrote a whole thread on why items with a lot of interest that don't use the /list function blow up and make it take longer for everyone. See here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...d.php?t=368086

If there is no cost to being on the /list, you will have more people on the list. When the cost of any good goes down, demand goes up. Pretty straight-forward.

You're also comparing a time when fewer people had jboots: there is always a premium cost to get items earlier. Now you can do OOT or Sro. There's no comparison. The vast majority of main toons in raiding guilds have jboots, and even some with jboots on a few alts. Demand is lower now.

We have to look at the topic holistically, not one just one person's anecdote. Player-held listens are burdensome, prone to "error", and will always be larger than a /list that requires you to be there proving you're not AFK.

Bullshit.

First, I didn’t have a nicer than average experience in OoT. I got skipped twice (shit happens, had to work) and a nce I got the camp I spent longer than average there. It was still mlles better than the Najena camp.

Also the idea that demand for boots has dropped is nonsense too. Jboots MQ hasn’t dropped in price, every alt needs one too.

And it’s not just one person’s anecdote, average time spent camping Najena Jboots was likely around 20-25 hours. AC is a sign up and forget list until you get high up and start keeing an eye on it. Only hassle is having to be bound there for a couple of weeks. It’s a MUCH higher quality of life camp than any /list camp ever was.

Thank you Kingdom for setting the list up!

[Cawin]

Nice to hear!

These forum posts always are started by someone who had a bad experience (usually via misunderstanding) and rage out. Then you hear from a bunch of professional ForumQuesters that haven't seen the Ocean of Tears in 10 years. The amount of people that have utilized the centralized player list with positive results is staggering and the positive comments I hear are awesome.

The list got attacked as a result of a forum complaint that I think the author was very much in the wrong on (so did guide) and had to be locked. It was officially "dead" and guess how people celebrated the "horrible, terrible, worst thing, welfare pixel" list death? Oh, they kept using and continued on.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bullshit.

First, I didn’t have a nicer than average experience in OoT. I got skipped twice (shit happens, had to work) and a nce I got the camp I spent longer than average there. It was still mlles better than the Najena camp.

Also the idea that demand for boots has dropped is nonsense too. Jboots MQ hasn’t dropped in price, every alt needs one too.

And it’s not just one person’s anecdote, average time spent camping Najena Jboots was likely around 20-25 hours. AC is a sign up and forget list until you get high up and start keeing an eye on it. Only hassle is having to be bound there for a couple of weeks. It’s a MUCH higher quality of life camp than any /list camp ever was.

Thank you Kingdom for setting the list up!

Just ignore "Castle 2.0" he's a toxic shit bag and everyone hated him at the /list camps on Teal (RIP). He bangs the drum so hard for the /list system for one reason and one reason alone, because he sees them as an avenue to benefit himself personally. He could give less than zero shits about what the best experience is for the average player or the server as a whole.

[chaos1990]

During the few days I ran the list for AC on blue I made it so to list you had to be in zone

It worked fine. Noone was upset. Often people would leave and come back and due to others doing that they would only lose 0-1 positions.

[kudlezz]

Folks with no notable commitments in life would naturally prefer to bolster their advantage by keeping systems like /list in place. That others have sorted out systems that happen to make at least reasonably possible for the employed or otherwise committed players to get rare items is a personal affront to them.

For the receipt of pixels by the less “worthy” by whatever depressing metric (time invested?) somehow impacts their enjoyment of the very same pixels.

The AC list is by and large a great success and Kingdom rocks for having started it and continued to help support it.

[Googi]

Easy solution, enable pvp

list will be in the teens all the time and much more fun

see you in oot !

[Castle2.0]

For the receipt of pixels by the less “worthy” by whatever depressing metric (time invested?) somehow impacts their enjoyment of the very same pixels.

EQ's entirely undergirded by the equation of time in = pixels out.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2Ofk2-XEAApYBB.jpg

Manastone is one of the highest priced items on market. Buying offers of 165-175k now. Continuous 18-148 hour camp with average around 50-70 hours.

Super rare drops take a long time to drop.... imagine that. And they tend to go for a lot of money.

Dragon/planar boss loot takes 20-30 people hours of poopsocking for a shot at it. Typically, the best items take the most time to get, and thus are the most desirable, and most costly.

People want crap for free. Sorry bros. I know ya'll wanna play the guitar on the MTV. Wrong era (that was 80s, EQ was 90s/00s)

Folks with no notable commitments in life would naturally prefer to bolster their advantage by keeping systems like /list in place. That others have sorted out systems that happen to make at least reasonably possible for the employed or otherwise committed players to get rare items is a personal affront to them.

Why don't we give everyone a Manastone? Who has 48 hours? Who has 1 hour? Who has 5 minutes? Why make people camp it at all? When you answer this question, you may have my answer to those wanting to make /list easier.