[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by MarauderOHHYEAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Coming from the queen of toxic that means nothing

Toxicity

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, you said it, FREEDOM and AG COMPETE. Im guessing your in Riot, because you are cheerleading kittens hard, and are really hung up on the fact that Freedom isnt killing things solo. And I dont know why you think im in a guild that cant kill vulak. But ok, cant control what you think. Rest assured, my guild is also capable of solo killing vulak. But can, has, and will kill it while competing for FTE. Still have yet to see anyone saying kittens has gotten a competitive vulak kill, let alone an FTE. Not that I think that should be the barrier to entry, but they seem very proud of their ability to kill vulak, and think that competing isnt a factor, so lets see them prove its not a factor for them.

Best chance of that happening is when the players who caused this three guild suspension prove that abiding by the rules is factor to them. The barrier of entry previously hasn't revolved around skill or determination, but community. Is a pile of pixels worth a larger pile of petitions?

[Xulia]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, i didnt realize you werent talking about your own guild. But that doesnt mean i made it up completely. Nice try.

Suuure...

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didnt say it had never happened. I feel I made it fairly clear that that meant, to the best of my knowledge, it hasnt happened. But you keep putting words in my mouth. If you have proof saying otherwise, show me.

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ive never, ever heard of kittens contesting vulak

You literally just advocated that it never happened.

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, you said it, FREEDOM and AG COMPETE.

As one raiding entity, not separate* You're leaving that out and it's important to remember. So which targets does Freedom compete for alone?

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im guessing your in Riot, because you are cheerleading kittens hard, and are really hung up on the fact that Freedom isnt killing things solo.

I am, you can click my signature and see for yourself. It's right there and I've not hidden that fact at any time. I am an ex-AG member as well that holds the members and leadership of AG in high regard and have continued to have solely positive interactions with them. I don't get how saying someone should have a voice is cheerleading but it's clear you don't want anyone outside of the banned having a voice despite the fact that the rules affect them.

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I dont know why you think im in a guild that cant kill vulak.

Are you in Freedom? Has Freedom solo killed Vulak? This is not meant as disrespect, and I am not hiding any ulterior slight, I am meaning this as a genuine pair of questions. If you can, then I rescind my statement and apologize. If not, then based on objective evidence your statement isn't true.

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Sancta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have any examples of Kittens attempting competitive targets? As in - the raid mob is up and more than 1 guild is going for it? Choosing not to compete with competitive targets excludes you from having a say creating competitive rules, especially if you don't even have a full grasp on the rules/mechanics/meta of being competitive.

KWSM often contests Aary -> to the right side, on quakes as well as natural respawn. I believe some time in the last month or two, we snaked an Aary out from AG / F. We were literally all up in the aary hall together the last server reset before the suspension. AG / F came and leapfrogged us on Fesh, but we got Dagarn (+1 drake - an aggressive engage for us). Obviously, given the number of times they've followed us and then leapfrogged to get FTE, AG / F must consider us at least competitive enough that they don't feel like they can leave mobs that are in our path, and still have them available for too long.

The further out from quakes we get, the less we usually do that as we just don't have the people/inclination to sock those timers are they get more and more spread out. We approach things somewhat differently, but don't mistake our choosing when we want to compete as an inability or unwillingness to do so. We just try to optimize our time spent.

It won't be long before you're moving the goalposts even further, saying "Only guilds that do a 6-guard Vulak engage deserve any say in the raid rules!" That is absurd. We all raid here, to one degree or another. The server enforced rules affect all of us, since we all have to abide by them. To be frank - even if we only contested outdoor Kunark dragons we should have a voice in the design and implementation of new rules. Stalling is a relevant factor on the Sev and Gore pulls. Faydedar is still an FTE mob that would lock us out of other content until it's dead.

Kittens doesn't need to also be suspended in order to deserve a voice in that process. The suspension is the punishment for the guilds that have acted so poorly as to cause an entire breakdown of the raid scene in the GM's eyes. Why should KWSM, who have not acted in this fashion, also be subject to that punishment?

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Suuure...





You literally just advocated that it never happened.



As one raiding entity, not separate* You're leaving that out and it's important to remember. So which targets does Freedom compete for alone?



I am, you can click my signature and see for yourself. It's right there and I've not hidden that fact at any time. I am an ex-AG member as well that holds the members and leadership of AG in high regard and have continued to have solely positive interactions with them. I don't get how saying someone should have a voice is cheerleading but it's clear you don't want anyone outside of the banned having a voice despite the fact that the rules affect them.



Are you in Freedom? Has Freedom solo killed Vulak? This is not meant as disrespect, and I am not hiding any ulterior slight, I am meaning this as a genuine pair of questions. If you can, then I rescind my statement and apologize. If not, then based on objective evidence your statement isn't true.

clearly your reading comprehension is in question. And clearly there is no point in arguing with you. So im done. Good luck on continuing to make Riot look they have never done anything wrong and AG is the bad guy.

[Xulia]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

clearly your reading comprehension is in question. And clearly there is no point in arguing with you. So im done. Good luck on continuing to make Riot look they have never done anything wrong and AG is the bad guy.

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am an ex-AG member as well that holds the members and leadership of AG in high regard and have continued to have solely positive interactions with them.

If your recourse in losing is to accuse the opposite argument of having poor reading comprehension, I'll take that as a concession. But it's also disingenuous considering I just told you I have nothing but positive interactions with AG, and you think I'm trying to make AG look bad. I guess you're right about one thing:

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

cant control what you think.

[Dreenk317]

Originally Posted by Xulia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your recourse in losing is to accuse the opposite argument of having poor reading comprehension, I'll take that as a concession. But it's also disingenuous considering I just told you I have nothing but positive interactions with AG, and you think I'm trying to make AG look bad. I guess you're right about one thing:

You have repeatedly asked me questions, that are answered in my previous posts. And put words in my mouth, making me think that yes, your reading comprehensions an issue with this argument.

[Xulia]

Originally Posted by Dreenk317 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You have repeatedly asked me questions, that are answered in my previous posts. And put words in my mouth, making me think that yes, your reading comprehensions an issue with this argument.

You've resorted to insults in a thread about addressing toxic behavior. That's really all that needs to be said.

[Toomuch]

So, the topic of this thread is "[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior"

How does everyone feel like they have behaved in this thread?

[Grapeape]

Originally Posted by MarauderOHHYEAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why should the people who play by the rules and go out of their way to treat people with respect and fairness have to join in on a raid ban to be considered relevant? The fact that kittens activity stayed out of the cluster fuck that is tov and chose to not be a part of the problem while still getting down dragons is more than enough reason to include them on server wide raid rule changes

The issue is that anyone not banned is incentivized to drag out any talks that could end that ban. Outside of a quake these 3 guilds kill the vast majority of raid targets. During this ban those mobs are going to the un-banned, obviously. It's irrefutable that those un-banned benefit from the "Toxic 3" being out of the picture for as long as possible. It's not a matter punishment. It's a matter of conflict of interest.