Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[Jimjam]

Yes, let's put Jugs and Tovtrash on permafarm, why should dragons follow different rules to the rest of Everquest!?

Equal plights for raid and group targets!

[Kefit]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean this is sort of the end result of the OP's train of thought. If Kittens/TSS/DBB/Asgard whoever wants to spend a Saturday sitting in fear clearing trash during golem window to claim a golem spawn as their camp, let them. If they wipe a guild with the "trackers" can come in and mop up their failed mob. Ditto Trak, if that guild first Trak kill means you are willing to pull juggs while camping the window in the lair while other guilds have more pressing matter, when why not let them?

My suggestion of treating raid mobs as Drusella/Lucan style camps was mostly meant as a joke, because the idea of a guild clearing VP or ToV trash for a week straight to get dibs on a raid target amuses me greatly. And they'd do it too.

But when you put it that way, this idea might actually have an ounce merit when applied to some lower end (but still worthwhile and contested) raid content.

[Kefit]

Actually nah it would just result in the top guild having small rotating dedicated teams "camping" all the remotely worthwhile Kunark and old world targets too.

I mean if they can do it for Shiny Brass Idols then they can do it for White Dragon Scales and AoNs too.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ditto Trak, if that guild first Trak kill means you are willing to pull juggs while camping the window in the lair while other guilds have more pressing matter, when why not let them?

BDA tried "putting in the work" to do this, the neckbeards had a meltdown because someone else was getting pixels (despite "putting in work"), and long story short, this is why you can't XP in Seb if Trak is in window and your guild wants to compete for it.

It has to be "putting in work" as defined by the same neckbeards who decide who deserves pixels on this server.

[JayDee]

Originally Posted by Heebs13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah permarooting the bosses causes problems with push to interrupt and such. Making them summon at 100% is still classic and solves the stupid trains to entrance without causing the push problem.

I understand and your solution may be just as good, if not better.

But I would say push can be handled the same as it would not without the mob physically move along the axis. I am not sure how much of a hurdle that is coding wise, but conceptually you just have it interrupt the same amount in relation to how much push it would have caused.

I am against any changes, but if I had to choose between these or camp counselor GM intervention, it's this. At the end of the day, the player should feel like they are in control.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is getting extremely convoluted and circuitous. I never said any of those things

There's an element of fairness to this: when arguing with people for 25 pages its easy to lose track of exactly what everyone said. On top of that, I purposely reference things person A said when talking to person B, because this isn't 20 tiny individual conversations, it's one big one.

But also, I'm making assumptions based on what you said. For instance, when I wrote:

Originally Posted by Loramin

When you (and not just you, many in this thread) are in "defend P99 competition" mode you're all about how "competition" is what's important, and it doesn't even matter about organizing people to kill dragons.

I was referring to stuff like:

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Serious question tho Loramin. What is it about the current situation that makes you feel like you or people you are concerned about have absolutely no chance at contesting ToV or top end content?

Inherent in that is the idea that we should have competition right? That competition is good, and that only the deserving few who "contest" ToV deserve it? You never say any of those things, but I have a hard time seeing that quote without a context that doesn't assume "competition" = good (with an underlying assumption that only those who "compete" in non-classic P99 games deserve to kill dragons in the classic EQ sense).

So maybe you never explicitly said "competition is more important than killing the dragons", but A) you implied it, and B) other people in this thread more or less have said that, and we're having a larger conversation. So while I certainly wouldn't want to put words in your mouth (that would be dishonest arguing), I also don't think it's unfair to (say) pin you as a defender of "competition".

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by enjchanter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think the bigger issue is that vulak robes only drop for guilds I'm not in

RIP the dream, brother. RIP.

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's an element of fairness to this: when arguing with people for 25 pages its easy to lose track of exactly what everyone said. On top of that, I purposely reference things person A said when talking to person B, because this isn't 20 tiny individual conversations, it's one big one.

But also, I'm making assumptions based on what you said. For instance, when I wrote:



I was referring to stuff like:



Inherent in that is the idea that we should have competition right? That competition is good, and that only the deserving few who "contest" ToV deserve it? You never say any of those things, but I have a hard time seeing that quote without a context that doesn't assume "competition" = good (with an underlying assumption that only those who "compete" in non-classic P99 games deserve to kill dragons in the classic EQ sense).

So maybe you never explicitly said "competition is more important than killing the dragons", but A) you implied it, and B) other people in this thread more or less have said that, and we're having a larger conversation. So while I certainly wouldn't want to put words in your mouth (that would be dishonest arguing), I also don't think it's unfair to (say) pin you as a defender of "competition".

I favor open content and player made agreements over artificial constraints and GM intervention. I don't support shitty behavior and tactics or the "get mobs at all costs" mentality. I don't like the "competition" line because it holds all the negative connotations from past shitheads that used it as a mask for their behavior. I'd rather say contesting content, we're rebranding here for a new era.

I personally think if you don't like the open world content model that leads to multiple people wanting the same items or mobs or camps at the same time, Classic Everquest is fundamentally not a game you'll enjoy playing. This is just a reality at every level of the game as I said before. It's not surprising that the best and rarest stuff in the game is the most hotly contested.

I really don't have a whole lot of skin in the game, rotations or not I'd probably stand the same chances of actually getting any significant raid loot. But I just think it would be boring. I'd take the 52+ CHANCES of getting Vulak a year over my guaranteed rationed 8.6 Vulaks per year under a rotation system any time. Which brings me back to my original point. A rotated zone is effectively an instance for whoever is up. I'd rather they just go ahead and instance ToV so we can all kill dragons in our instance every weekend, instead of having to wait 4-8 weeks for our instance to refresh.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by destrozi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EXACTLY like the snapshot of live this server replicates from 2001.

Sounds like you weren't playing a high level toon around the time velious was dropped on live. Raid mobs were up all the time. On most servers all but one guild could even field enough 50-60 lvl players to down dragons, let alone the insane non classic everything dying within 3 minutes of spawning non classic training/pulling mechanics non classic clicky use list goes on and on and on... Basically the raid scene on p99 is lightyears away from what everquest raiding was in real velious.

[Heebs13]

Originally Posted by aaezil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds like you weren't playing a high level toon around the time velious was dropped on live. Raid mobs were up all the time. On most servers all but one guild could even field enough 50-60 lvl players to down dragons, let alone the insane non classic everything dying within 3 minutes of spawning non classic training/pulling mechanics non classic clicky use list goes on and on and on... Basically the raid scene on p99 is lightyears away from what everquest raiding was in real velious.

Everything you said is true, but how would you fix this?

Put a limit on total characters a person can have / play? Something like 2 characters per IP, and if a character is logged onto from more than 2 IPs (let's say 1 for home, 1 for work), it raises a flag that a GM investigates? Basically start cracking down on shared toons and alts?

Do a full server wipe every year or two?

Remove recharges?

Remove certain clicky items (cough cough DA Idol cough cough)?

Gonna piss off a lot of people if they do any of the above really.