Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Class Discussions > Priests

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-27-2021, 08:05 AM
Vanessa Vanessa is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Default For a Shaman who wants to melee level, do I need to be Ogre/Troll?

Hello everyone, I'm considering making a Shaman as an alt, but I want to play it mostly as melee character who debuffs the mobs, and buffs herself etc. Rather than the Root + Dots playstyle, since that's currently what I do mostly on my Druid.

I was looking at the wiki, and the melee stat difference between Iksar / Troll / Ogre, are pretty big. For example, Ogre starts with 130 Str and 127 Sta, whereas a Iksar only has 70 Str and 75 Sta.

With such a huge difference in Str and Stam, does that mean it will be much harder to melee effectively on an Iksar, compared to an Ogre? Am I basically forced to go Ogre or Troll, if I want to level efficiently by mostly meleeing?

Thanks!
Last edited by Vanessa; 01-27-2021 at 08:13 AM..
  #2  
Old 01-27-2021, 08:14 AM
Danth Danth is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,407
Default

No, you don't have to pick a specific race. In the near term your damage doesn't scale well and in the long term you have tremendous statistic buff spells anyhow. Difference between them in melee is pretty slim unless you really hate being bashed. The largest pro-Ogre proponent on this forum confirms in his own testing that the Ogre's advantage is not more than a few per cent at best--not enough to get bent out of shape over unless you're determined to min-max as much as possible. All shamans will supplement their melee damage with spell damage and (later) pet damage because Shaman melee post-level 20 is rather weak due to priest hit tables and no double attack. At the end all shamans will solo while in melee since you don't have a choice against things which summon. They all get the job done.

Danth
  #3  
Old 01-27-2021, 09:30 AM
Crede Crede is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,982
Default

Ahh this sounds like the start of another shaman racial debate thread. Shaman melee will wear out in the 30s or so so the race isn't too important there, but I'd probably roll ogre because if you continue to play your shaman with a solo play style eventually you may hit 60 when you'll appreciate the ogre frontal stun immunity for solo stuff.
  #4  
Old 01-27-2021, 10:19 AM
Vanessa Vanessa is offline
Kobold


Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 114
Default

I just don't think I could handle being an Ogre or a Troll lol, they're just too ugly, and HUGE.

Also by melee, I didn't mean like doing mostly melee damage. I meant more like, debuffing and DoTing the enemy, then tanking / meleeing it down, with my pet biting it too. At least, that's what I saw other Shamans doing, and it looked pretty fun and active. I'm sure the actual melee damage of a Shaman is nothing compared to like Monk, Rogue, or Ranger etc. But I just like the idea of being in melee range, and swinging my weapon. I feel like with that play style, I'd actually feel like I was in a fight, rather than just Root + DoT then sit and wait =/.

I don't care too much about min / maxing. However, I also don't want screw myself so badly stat wise, that when I swing, I am doing like under 20dmg a swing, whereas if I was an Ogre or Troll, I'd be doing over 30-40+ etc. I don't know exactly how all the stats, dmg, and math works out. But from what Danth said, it doesn't sound like it would be too much of a problem.

If that's the case, then maybe I will go Iksar after all.

But before I actually decide that or not, are there any other reason why I shouldn't go Iksar? Maybe Barbarian?
  #5  
Old 01-27-2021, 11:29 AM
Crede Crede is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanessa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I just don't think I could handle being an Ogre or a Troll lol, they're just too ugly, and HUGE.

Also by melee, I didn't mean like doing mostly melee damage. I meant more like, debuffing and DoTing the enemy, then tanking / meleeing it down, with my pet biting it too. At least, that's what I saw other Shamans doing, and it looked pretty fun and active. I'm sure the actual melee damage of a Shaman is nothing compared to like Monk, Rogue, or Ranger etc. But I just like the idea of being in melee range, and swinging my weapon. I feel like with that play style, I'd actually feel like I was in a fight, rather than just Root + DoT then sit and wait =/.

I don't care too much about min / maxing. However, I also don't want screw myself so badly stat wise, that when I swing, I am doing like under 20dmg a swing, whereas if I was an Ogre or Troll, I'd be doing over 30-40+ etc. I don't know exactly how all the stats, dmg, and math works out. But from what Danth said, it doesn't sound like it would be too much of a problem.

If that's the case, then maybe I will go Iksar after all.

But before I actually decide that or not, are there any other reason why I shouldn't go Iksar? Maybe Barbarian?
You really shouldn’t be worrying about melee dmg on a shaman. They’re not a melee class and it will fizzle out very quickly. Yes ogres should do a bit more with higher strength but it’s basically irrelevant as shaman melee is worse than a bard and you can buff strength as well for weight issues. Iksars can’t wear the jbb(jaundiced bone bracer). It’s not class defining but it’s a great/fun item and if you plan to sit back and let your pet tank you might want to consider having a barbarian for mana free nukes eventually. .
  #6  
Old 01-27-2021, 11:55 AM
loramin loramin is offline
Planar Protector

loramin's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,340
Default

I completely get the desire to do this. Hell, I wanted to play a "Battle Cleric" so badly I twinked one with a Fungi Tunic, Velium Crystal Staff, and a decent haste item! And on my Shaman (my first character here), the one and only "twink item" I was given by a friend was a Barbarian Spiritist's Hammer. This was back before the proc nerf, so you better believe I was running around meleeing with my Shaman! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But, as someone who has tried to play two Priest classes as if they were melee, I promise this: it simply doesn't work past level 20 or so. Priests (even ones with great proccing weapons) simply don't do enough melee damage after the n00b levels. Your fights will just get longer and longer, the higher the mobs' level gets; at some point even a Fungi won't be enough to keep you alive anymore ... but even before that you'll switch to using spells, simply because melee damage is so slow.

Also keep in mind, Shaman slow sucks at low levels. At level 20 you're not even reducing their attack speed by a quarter: even a slowed mob still does 75+% of its damage. So if you try to melee, you'll wind up spending tons of mana on near-worthless slows, roots to take breaks from damage, and heals to fix that damage. And you'll quickly see that it makes much more sense to root the mob or let your pet tank it, not take any damage at all, and then use the mana for DoTs.

So the real answer here is YOUR RACE DOES NOT MATTER! If a Fungi won't keep you alive in melee from 20-60, you better believe the (much lower) Troll regeneration won't either. No matter what race you pick, you will stop meleeing ... so embrace that and pick whatever race you want.

P.S. At latter levels Shaman certainly do melee ... but not because they're doing meaningful melee damage. Once your slow starts reducing melee damage by more than half, you may want to tank mobs again (eg. because they summon, break root frequently, etc.). But again, the melee damage won't matter ... and neither will your race.
__________________

Loramin Frostseer, Oracle of the Tribunal <Anonymous> and Fan of the "Where To Go For XP/For Treasure?" Guides
Anyone can improve the wiki! If you are new to the Blue server, you can improve the wiki to earn a "welcome package" of up to 2k+ platinum! Message me for details.
Last edited by loramin; 01-27-2021 at 11:58 AM..
  #7  
Old 01-27-2021, 11:56 AM
Danth Danth is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanessa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I just don't think I could handle being an Ogre or a Troll lol, they're just too ugly, and HUGE.
Always pick the race you like the best. "Ideal" choice does nothing for you if the character goes un-used because you hate the thing. If you like Iksar, pick Iksar.

Main things to watch out for with Iksar is they can't wear Jaundiced Bone (mainly people care about the bracer for the click damage spell) and can't slam. Lack of slam makes spellcasters a little bit more dangerous than usual. Iksars also come with their usual poor factions in old-world cities. Iksar does the job if you want racial regeneration but don't want to be a Troll. Iksar AC bonus should offer a slight bonus to a Shaman who likes to be in melee a lot, call it a consolation prize. You will not notice any large difference in melee damage dealt regardless of race. An Ogre might hit for a couple points more during the teens. It is not significant enough to pick a race for that reason. An Iksar shaman might get encumbered from loot once in awhile at low levels when your STR buff is weak and you have no weight reduction bags, but no more so than any of a dozen other classes in this game and you get better STR buffs soon enough anyhow.

Loramin is right, there will be a period during the middle levels where staying in melee will kind of get annoying. As he says, it comes back later on. The wife's Shaman is very much capable of solo'ing in melee range if it wants to, albeit its melee damage is so low (using the Spear of Fate) that it doesn't particularly notice whether or not it actually turns attack on.

Danth
Last edited by Danth; 01-27-2021 at 12:03 PM..
  #8  
Old 01-27-2021, 12:05 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,320
Default

Melee shaman is style over substance, so the only choice is Barbarian. Beat hat or full blown Polar bear monster. Move to resolved.
  #9  
Old 01-27-2021, 01:02 PM
Tunabros Tunabros is offline
Banned


Join Date: May 2018
Location: California, United States
Posts: 3,375
Default

ogre is the best melee overall
  #10  
Old 01-27-2021, 03:05 PM
Gustoo Gustoo is offline
Planar Protector

Gustoo's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: The side of Bristlebane
Posts: 6,039
Default

Can someone tell me why people talk about shamans tanking all the time?

Like, I don't see any stats that make a shaman more of a tank than a cleric.
__________________
Discord PVP Server:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogean View Post
Lost but not forgotten.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.