Project 1999

Go Back   Project 1999 > Green Community > Green Server Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 04-09-2021, 03:28 AM
Arvan Arvan is offline
Fire Giant


Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Norrath
Posts: 582
Default

Lots of karens on the boards these days
__________________
Hey CSR When Will PNP Rule 14 Be Enforced?
  #62  
Old 04-09-2021, 03:46 AM
Xer0 Xer0 is offline
Fire Giant

Xer0's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 757
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Lots of karens on the boards these days
Join Date: Apr 2019

who are you?
  #63  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:00 AM
Xer0 Xer0 is offline
Fire Giant

Xer0's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 757
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost wolves [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Random ZEMs completely defeats the purpose of ZEMs in the first place, which is to reward hunting in difficult zones or to lower population of others.

Creating uniform ZEMs across the board does nothing. It just means LOOT becomes the draw again which means everyone overcrowds zones like Guk, etc.

Having everyone in the Hole isn't classic but so what? Let people play the way they want to play and most people want to level faster. The zone diversity of Classic is NEVER coming back because we have wikis now that tell everyone what to do. If you want to go to other zones, hit up your guildmates and have at it. That's what a guild is for, no? PUGs aren't the only way to group.

hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?
Last edited by Xer0; 04-09-2021 at 04:07 AM..
  #64  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:05 AM
Arvan Arvan is offline
Fire Giant


Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Norrath
Posts: 582
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Join Date: Apr 2019

who are you?
Been here awhile this forum account is pretty new though

If you didnt know you can make as many as you like
__________________
Hey CSR When Will PNP Rule 14 Be Enforced?
  #65  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:24 AM
Xer0 Xer0 is offline
Fire Giant

Xer0's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 757
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Been here awhile this forum account is pretty new though

If you didnt know you can make as many as you like
this speaks volumes about you [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
  #66  
Old 04-09-2021, 06:07 AM
ghost wolves ghost wolves is offline
Large Rat

ghost wolves's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?
For sure they aren't all based on difficulty and a good amount of them are just because the zones had low population. I just really don't see the difference. Before everyone was crammed into Guk and Seb and people complained. Now it's The Hole. We don't have any new zones coming. At least what we have now is a change from the last 20 years.

I suppose if you are a group dependent class I could see it as pidgeonholed. You need groups to do anything and all the groups are in one place. But that's how it always was. I'm not a fan of Guk but that's where you had to go if you wanted a group fast. You can throw me examples of "back in the day you could go to ___ and ___ and ___ and find groups" and I would argue it's the same today. Just have to take initiative.

I really don't think what I said was a cop-out considering how social the game is designed. If I don't have friends that will group up with me, that's not the game's fault. If I have to rely on PUGs to do anything, that's not the game's fault. A highway is always gonna be there, ZEM or no ZEM, there have always been overpopulated zones and underutilized ones on Live. The difference is Live had a much larger player base, so finding a PUG in Lake Rathe was a thing and now it's not.

I still feel the game has plenty of different ways to tackle it. There are solo guides, there's the bard diet, there's money camps, there's exp highway, etc. I've seen people put together groups for zones by going to tunnel and OOCing, then getting someone to port them there. It's going to take effort, but people DO play this game to have fun and relive the memories, so it's not as hard as you think if you name an exciting zone they haven't seen in a while. However if someone wants to rush to 60 and max ZEM because their playtime is limited, more power to them.

I just really don't see removing ZEMs or randomizing ZEMs as doing anything but shifting everyone from Zones ABC to Zones XYZ as soon as the consensus is out on what the new optimal path is. And that will happen, because it always happens.
  #67  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:43 AM
cd288 cd288 is offline
Planar Protector


Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,936
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
hm i don't think much of what you say holds water. You're saying to let people play what they want to play, but the meta you're suggesting we preserve pigeon holes most people into following pretty linear paths. Nothing about changing the meta surrounding ZEMs would force people to play any way they don't want to play-- however as it stands, we have just that.

And saying "Oh well just join a guild and group that way!" is a copout of a response and anyone who has spent any significant amoutn of time in the game knows this. Same with "just make your own group!". While I'm not saying these can't work, I AM stating that they're not very reliable unless you are a tank, healer, or porter. More often than not you're going to find the melee dps/tanks sitting LFG at the ZL of the ZEM Hotspots are going to be more inclined to sit and wait for their turn in line rather than travel to the nearest hub, try to find a port, then travel to the stranger sending them a tell.

If the ZEM's weren't' concrete, the wiki wouldn't be directing people to the same zones, and you probably would see more diversity, contrary to what you've suggested.

Furthermore, I don't think the ZEM is explicitly doled out based on zone difficulty. Just look at the list of Kunark ZEM's and tell me that's true. You're telling me The Overthere is deemed more difficult than Nurga/Droga?
If it wasn’t for ZEM then everyone would go to the zones with the best loot like LGuk. It’s either loot or fast exp that is the driver. When you have ZEMs people chase the fast exp. get rid of those and people would go after the loot (which is what happened on classic pre-ZEM once people started figuring out where the best loot was).
  #68  
Old 04-14-2021, 03:08 AM
Un4Scene Un4Scene is offline
Skeleton


Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 19
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If it wasn’t for ZEM then everyone would go to the zones with the best loot like LGuk. It’s either loot or fast exp that is the driver. When you have ZEMs people chase the fast exp. get rid of those and people would go after the loot (which is what happened on classic pre-ZEM once people started figuring out where the best loot was).

Yes! This is exactly why I said that eliminating the XP highway might do something to fix the broken economy on Green. More people XP'ing in zones with desirable loot would be a very good thing for the server! The ZEM's don't need to be removed or equalized, they just need to be toned down. Right now, the most beneficial path (due to the extreme ZEM's) is to get 60 first, then farm gear to sell, then use those profits to buy the high-end gear you actually want. If the ZEM's were less extreme, then more people would consider XP'ing in the zones where they could actually fight for the gear that's appropriate for their level.

For a (non-precise) example, with the current ZEM's:
The Hole: lv 50-55 is about 75 hours (with mostly crap loot that people can't even sell anymore, because the market is so flooded with it). Add about 50 hours farming money to buy high-end gear = 125 hours of play
Sebilis: lv 50-55 is about 300 hours (due to difficulty in finding groups). No farming necessary because Seb has very useful loot = 300 hours
125 hours vs 300 hours = The Problem.

Adjust the ZEM's to equalize that a bit, and people will feel like they have a reasonable choice again. If it was something like 200 vs 250, then people could make a decision like "Do I want to PL to 60 and farm later, or do I want to level slower and reduce the farming?" As it stands now, that's not really an option... nobody wants to feel like they've wasted that much play time.
  #69  
Old 04-14-2021, 05:28 AM
Tethler Tethler is offline
Planar Protector

Tethler's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Japan
Posts: 2,312
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Un4Scene [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
125 hours vs 300 hours = The Problem.

Adjust the ZEM's to equalize that a bit, and people will feel like they have a reasonable choice again. If it was something like 200 vs 250, then people could make a decision like "Do I want to PL to 60 and farm later, or do I want to level slower and reduce the farming?" As it stands now, that's not really an option... nobody wants to feel like they've wasted that much play time.
I think this is really what it comes down to. I don't know the actual grind hours required, but the perception of a large gap between the hole/perma pits and everything else is certainly a factor for many.
__________________
  #70  
Old 04-14-2021, 02:33 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is online now
Planar Protector

Toxigen's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 4,726
Default

Just make Hole, Seb, Velk, HS, Chardok, and KC all within range.

115, 120, 125, 130, 135, 140 - assign each one a unique zem and rotate it randomly every two weeks.

Done.
__________________
ENC | MNK | WAR | ROG | CLR | DRU | SHM | NEC | PAL | BRD
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:23 AM.


Everquest is a registered trademark of Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Project 1999 is not associated or affiliated in any way with Daybreak Game Company LLC.
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.