Thoughts on reincarnation

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by renordw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The crux of the issue is that we can't understand the complexity of our brains because we are using those same brains to try to understand that complexity. So it will always seem mysterious, but it really isn't.

Shouldn't matter. You are thinking along the lines of a silicone based computer. Man has a biological computer, far superior to any silicone based supercomputer in existence today, even beyond quantum computing. The problem is not computing power or storage capacity, it's about programming. You need to program the computer to begin to understand something, to be purposed for the specific task at hand.

Any computer is just a doorstop without programming, and biological computers are no different. Even layers of programming just like a silicon based computer; this is likely how the human brain functions. From low level programming to high level programming. From hardware, to BIOS, to firmware, to OS, to applications etc. Just like you don't sit there and concentrate on breathing, or run a self-diagnostic program (that you likely have) to realize you have a pain in your back, that's all taken care of by the different levels of programming in the human brain and body.

And then the level of the soul is yet another level of programming, rides above it all as the highest level, the actual user interface. We are data, and that doesn't mean nothing because data actually exists with all of it's physical properties. Just like people joke about pixels on a screen, but that data physically exists and we simply see a representation of that data in an understandable form to us, to our higher levels of programming and I/O recognition.

In fact the whole universe is just data at the quantum level, just like the digital representation they realize is on a black hole, of everything inside of it (i.e. Black hole information paradox). Some theorize that it is not just with black holes, but that all data is also written on the boundary of our universe, of everything inside.

They are still trying to figure it out,Hawking with his latest revelation this year, but then they could be looking at it backwards. Maybe the data is the actual source form, and the perceived physical matter is the perception by our I/O interpretation. After all, matter seems to defy our known understanding of what matter actually is, so that space seemingly becomes filled with matter, even though there are great distances from atom to atom. It's almost like trying to cut a hologram with a scalpel, if you could you'd just find the same hologram inside, and again and again, because it's not the source data, it's not the authentic.

So when trying to truly understand brain synapses, it's not a failure of our processing capacity of the brain, but that we must first understand how to look at the problem with it's many factors. At best all we can do is build simulated models based on a level of hacking what exists, to backwards engineer it in modification form (we can't even create mater only repurpose it). That's not a failure of processing power, but that of a user vs a software engineer, or specifically the one that designed the system in the first place. Heck, with what understanding of the system we have, we can't even figure out how a bumble bee flies, it defies everything we know. There is far more going on than we perceive.

[kvlt]

I believe in that shit.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shouldn't matter. You are thinking along the lines of a silicone based computer. Man has a biological computer, far superior to any silicone based supercomputer in existence today, even beyond quantum computing. The problem is not computing power or storage capacity, it's about programming. You need to program the computer to begin to understand something, to be purposed for the specific task at hand.

Any computer is just a doorstop without programming, and biological computers are no different. Even layers of programming just like a silicon based computer; this is likely how the human brain functions. From low level programming to high level programming. From hardware, to BIOS, to firmware, to OS, to applications etc. Just like you don't sit there and concentrate on breathing, or run a self-diagnostic program (that you likely have) to realize you have a pain in your back, that's all taken care of by the different levels of programming in the human brain and body.

And then the level of the soul is yet another level of programming, rides above it all as the highest level, the actual user interface. We are data, and that doesn't mean nothing because data actually exists with all of it's physical properties. Just like people joke about pixels on a screen, but that data physically exists and we simply see a representation of that data in an understandable form to us, to our higher levels of programming and I/O recognition.

In fact the whole universe is just data at the quantum level, just like the digital representation they realize is on a black hole, of everything inside of it (i.e. Black hole information paradox). Some theorize that it is not just with black holes, but that all data is also written on the boundary of our universe, of everything inside.

They are still trying to figure it out,Hawking with his latest revelation this year, but then they could be looking at it backwards. Maybe the data is the actual source form, and the perceived physical matter is the perception by our I/O interpretation. After all, matter seems to defy our known understanding of what matter actually is, so that space seemingly becomes filled with matter, even though there are great distances from atom to atom. It's almost like trying to cut a hologram with a scalpel, if you could you'd just find the same hologram inside, and again and again, because it's not the source data, it's not the authentic.

So when trying to truly understand brain synapses, it's not a failure of our processing capacity of the brain, but that we must first understand how to look at the problem with it's many factors. At best all we can do is build simulated models based on a level of hacking what exists, to backwards engineer it in modification form (we can't even create mater only repurpose it). That's not a failure of processing power, but that of a user vs a software engineer, or specifically the one that designed the system in the first place. Heck, with what understanding of the system we have, we can't even figure out how a bumble bee flies, it defies everything we know. There is far more going on than we perceive.

Can also add that our brains filter out information not necessary for survival, usually. I forget the study, but some years back there was a study done on schizophrenics that found that many of the huallucinations were actual stimuli not perceptable to others in the room.

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can also add that our brains filter out information not necessary for survival, usually. I forget the study, but some years back there was a study done on schizophrenics that found that many of the huallucinations were actual stimuli not perceptable to others in the room.

100% correct the hallucinations are stimulus from surroundings, being interpreted in its own special way by their brain.

anyone whos read any real anecdotes from livejournal, blogs, etc on a day in the life would understand, no need to even look at studies or the science. obvious when reading firsthand accounts that schizos are stimuli based.

[renordw]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shouldn't matter. You are thinking along the lines of a silicone based computer. Man has a biological computer, far superior to any silicone based supercomputer in existence today, even beyond quantum computing. The problem is not computing power or storage capacity, it's about programming. You need to program the computer to begin to understand something, to be purposed for the specific task at hand.

Any computer is just a doorstop without programming, and biological computers are no different. Even layers of programming just like a silicon based computer; this is likely how the human brain functions. From low level programming to high level programming. From hardware, to BIOS, to firmware, to OS, to applications etc. Just like you don't sit there and concentrate on breathing, or run a self-diagnostic program (that you likely have) to realize you have a pain in your back, that's all taken care of by the different levels of programming in the human brain and body.

And then the level of the soul is yet another level of programming, rides above it all as the highest level, the actual user interface. We are data, and that doesn't mean nothing because data actually exists with all of it's physical properties. Just like people joke about pixels on a screen, but that data physically exists and we simply see a representation of that data in an understandable form to us, to our higher levels of programming and I/O recognition.

In fact the whole universe is just data at the quantum level, just like the digital representation they realize is on a black hole, of everything inside of it (i.e. Black hole information paradox). Some theorize that it is not just with black holes, but that all data is also written on the boundary of our universe, of everything inside.

They are still trying to figure it out,Hawking with his latest revelation this year, but then they could be looking at it backwards. Maybe the data is the actual source form, and the perceived physical matter is the perception by our I/O interpretation. After all, matter seems to defy our known understanding of what matter actually is, so that space seemingly becomes filled with matter, even though there are great distances from atom to atom. It's almost like trying to cut a hologram with a scalpel, if you could you'd just find the same hologram inside, and again and again, because it's not the source data, it's not the authentic.

So when trying to truly understand brain synapses, it's not a failure of our processing capacity of the brain, but that we must first understand how to look at the problem with it's many factors. At best all we can do is build simulated models based on a level of hacking what exists, to backwards engineer it in modification form (we can't even create mater only repurpose it). That's not a failure of processing power, but that of a user vs a software engineer, or specifically the one that designed the system in the first place. Heck, with what understanding of the system we have, we can't even figure out how a bumble bee flies, it defies everything we know. There is far more going on than we perceive.

I'm following everything that you're saying, until you start talking about the soul. The concept of a soul is just emergent from all of the synaptic activity in the brain, and it feels special to us because we experience it subjectively. Just because we can't understand it doesn't mean that there's anything mystical to it, it means that it's complex.

What I am saying is this: I don't believe in a soul, or even free will. The processes that go into decision making and consciousness are so complex, that we don't understand them and we attribute mysticality, consciousness, or free will to what we can't explain.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by renordw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm following everything that you're saying, until you start talking about the soul. The concept of a soul is just emergent from all of the synaptic activity in the brain, and it feels special to us because we experience it subjectively. Just because we can't understand it doesn't mean that there's anything mystical to it, it means that it's complex.

What I am saying is this: I don't believe in a soul, or even free will. The processes that go into decision making and consciousness are so complex, that we don't understand them and we attribute mysticality, consciousness, or free will to what we can't explain.

My computer can only run simulations, calculate probabilities etc. Heck, it can't even achieve true random. It has yet to have a premonition or a gut feeling. You never have them I take it...

I get 'em bad, not all the time, but they hit hard with astonishment when they do, and can't be forced. And it's not a random thing, it's really accurate. Everyone I've known has had some level of awareness to those things. That is beyond the physical level, and part of why most people in the world acknowledge the existence of the soul.

In fact, with all these possibilities about digital existence, the soul could be the only thing that is actually real in this realm and not simply temporary data. Believe what you want, but you gotta overlook a lot of things to get there. And that sounds like free will to me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Aesop]

Originally Posted by renordw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I am saying is this: I don't believe in a soul, or even free will. The processes that go into decision making and consciousness are so complex, that we don't understand them and we attribute mysticality, consciousness, or free will to what we can't explain.

free will certainly exists. i think i already said this, but would you say you have free will in EverQuest?

you can control your avatar, and do all kinds of stuff --

but every possible things you can do in EQ is already known, the parameters are already set. you have free will but it is constrained by the laws of the game.

in some sense it's not completely free, but under what circumstances would you consider it free? the ability to do anything? you need to be God himself before you consider it free will?

just in case you don't get the analogy, you have free will here too. everything you can possibly do is already realized in some sense. all future paths available to you based on your initial configuration are there. it's like a choose your own adventure almost.

anyways, you have a soul and free will which is what is enabling you to believe these things as you float through life like an NPC.

[renordw]

Originally Posted by Aesop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

free will certainly exists. i think i already said this, but would you say you have free will in EverQuest?

you can control your avatar, and do all kinds of stuff --

but every possible things you can do in EQ is already known, the parameters are already set. you have free will but it is constrained by the laws of the game.

in some sense it's not completely free, but under what circumstances would you consider it free? the ability to do anything? you need to be God himself before you consider it free will?

just in case you don't get the analogy, you have free will here too. everything you can possibly do is already realized in some sense. all future paths available to you based on your initial configuration are there. it's like a choose your own adventure almost.

anyways, you have a soul and free will which is what is enabling you to believe these things as you float through life like an NPC.

No way. That's like saying the bowling ball has free will after you throw it down the lane. The bowling ball doesn't understand that it's bound by certain physical laws, and the same applies to us, just many more physical processes.

[Aesop]

uh no,

but you don't have free will so i know you can't help being this dense.

and i can't help being this rude to someone i should try and help understand the big scary concept.

[renordw]

Originally Posted by Aesop [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

uh no,

but you don't have free will so i know you can't help being this dense.

and i can't help being this rude to someone i should try and help understand the big scary concept.

Are you kidding? Theoretical physicists generally agree that free will is an illusion.

In pure quantum theory, at any rate, the physical state of the entire universe evolves as one. In pure quantum theory, everything is entangled, and entanglement is not causality, it’s connectedness. This connectedness has nothing to do with the speed of light: both you and the electron are connected with the whole rest of the universe now. What you’re doing, and what the electron is doing – in fact, what every individual thing is doing – is just what the whole universe is doing, right now.

The Conway-Kochen theorem limits the deterministic effects of your individual past, but if everything is connected, your individual past doesn’t matter. What matters is the past of the whole universe, and the past of the whole universe includes everything. So the Conway-Kochen theorem is no protection: if everything is connected, you don’t have free will after all. Nothing has free will.