Game Mechanics: Hide (See Invis and See IVU)

[Treats]

Mobs that See Invis and Undead that See IVU should be able to see through Hide.

The ability that was added later that gave Rogues immunity to most See Invis/See IVU mobs was Shroud of Stealth (This will never be available on the server).

Rogues should still be able to advance up to mobs that See as long as they are in their rear arc (Sneaking will make them indifferent). Once they are past that point the mob should attack them.

At the risk of nit-picking, any SeeInvis mob can see through Hide, and at
lower levels many mobs have a tiny chance to see through it.
There is NO mob that is unaffected by the properties of Sneak itself. You
can Sneak behind the Gods themselves if you can get up there.

To troubleshoot your situation, what *level* was your halfling rogue?
Rogues do not get their success/fail messages on Hide until 3rd level so
it's possible that you only *thought* you were hiding.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...st/R0P0fq0EDEw

[Nirgon]

Yeah racial hide making me invis to undead mobs is sadsville

[Treats]

Bump ;/

[RyoGTO]

I mained a rogue all through this era on live. Hide alone (rogue or racial) did not work against undead mobs - it was NOT an IVU. When hide was combined with sneak on a rogue, then ONLY did it become an IVU, as well as regular invis. However, there were very special mobs that could see through rogue invis. Hide on this server is far from classic if it works as an IVU -- if it works as anything but a regular invis.

[Treats]

For Sundawg regarding Plane of Fear and Rogues.

If you like your rogue now, keep it. Rogues rock! They are the BEST
at CR in the Plane of Hate (although not good at it in Fear). But they
are attractive to groups in general and a lot of fun.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...st/XV1K7AaPZAM

You don't think Verant would let hide and sneak escape the same
limitations as invisibility do you? See invisible sees rogues too.

Moot anyway, checked last nigh. Invis/Hide/Camo don't
work anymore but Sneak still does. So until they nerf
sneak as well it is still possible to get a corpse back
from under a dragon.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...st/dMzm1mJ63L4

Apparently Rogue Hide did not have Invisibility to Undead before this patch:

*Rogue Enhancement*

Whenever a rogue is invisible, whether by spell, potion, or skill, they are now
also invisible to undead.

This change was made to add a definite class-advantage to the rogue, allowing
them to do something that no other class could do. It is the first step in a
multi-step process to improve the rogue class.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...st/FPJmfQtRXZY

The rogue speed with hide/sneak is like being snared, it's very, very slow.
A SOW takes the speed up to about normal walk speed, so even with SOW,
hide/sneak is very slow travelling. Also, MOBs that see thru invis can see
thru hide/sneak.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...B1-25-false%5D

[Splorf22]

Sneak/Hide are different from invis. There are things which will see
through one and not the other. Of relevance to rogues: Ghoul Assassin will
see through sneak/hide, but not through IVU.

Giants in the frontier mountains will see invis, but not sneak/hide.

Rogues are invaluable in the planes for corpse recovery. Hate in particular
(although there are some things in hate which will see them).

From the same thread. So it does seem that maybe there were separate flags for it. I'm guessing that in the Kunark dungeons Verant just flagged all the see invis as see hide.

Well, that would be an immensely incorrect assumption. Lots and lots of
things can see through a rogue sneak/hide. Most creatures that can see
through invis/ivu, for starters. If sneak/hide made rogues completely
invisible to everything, that would be GROSSLY overpowered. Sneak/Hide is
better than invis/ivu in many ways, but it does not confer complete
immunity to attack.

From the original thread. And in fact it is grossly overpowered here [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[RyoGTO]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For Sundawg regarding Plane of Fear and Rogues.

Apparently Rogue Hide did not have Invisibility to Undead before this patch:



https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...st/FPJmfQtRXZY

Looks like Rogue sneak/hide being also IVU came out several months before Kunark was released, with the Plane of Sky patch. Makes sense, because I didn't really start playing until around that time on live, which is why I remember it always being that way.

[kanras]

Pending update:
- Rogue hide will function the same as invis + IVU stacked.
- Non-rogue (racial hide) will function the same as invis.
- Mobs that see through invis/IVU will similarly see through hide.