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  #291  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:28 PM
Swish Swish is offline
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Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
All class R members had a part in the rotations fall. We just happen to get the blame because we were the last push. Whatever, consider Phinny.
Yeah damn Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy, how dare true casual guilds shit up the rotation by asking to be on the list. Better adjust it and have Gorenaire as the gatekeeper to getting on the list lol.

You axed it for a play for more pixels. It worked short term, collapsing a couple of genuinely casual guilds so you and your casually hardcore pals (Taken) could take 2 out of 3 class R dragons. That's why CSG formed, because the meta was zerging content.

How could Supremacy, MC, Divinity, or any of the other smaller guilds (read: the TRUE casual guilds) really compete at the time?

Answer: they couldn't (and you knew it)
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  #292  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:34 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You do realize there are many raid mobs in Velious and A/A can only be locked into 1 at a time right?

Regardless of any crazy loophole rule worry that may exist, once A/A are locked, it becomes advantage server for anyone who wants to contest the next spawn.

Also Awakened's suspension has nothing to do with competition, it was a locked Vulak spawn that the violation occurred on. Barrier of entry is just an excuse, the current meta is extremely casual friendly outside of the sheer hours of variance which is not the fault of A/A.
I was referencing the fact that it's not about how good you are at the game but how good you are at gaming the system. There's a reason "fraps or it didn't happen" and "lawyerquest" are idioms here. A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans. There's probably 20 man hours a week put into making your case that you deserved the mob. Nobody wants to put 16 hours into tracking a mob and then lose it simply because they didn't have a good angle on their fraps video.

If everyone always played by the rules in good faith, there'd be no problems. If 5 guilds could race and then 4 of them said, "Congrats" to the winner, walked away and tried again next week, you'd see more "competition". But RnF/Raid Discussion/Personal Experience says that doesn't happen.
Last edited by Ravager; 01-10-2017 at 12:40 PM..
  #293  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:35 PM
Erati Erati is offline
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Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Yeah damn Moonlight Crusaders and Supremacy, how dare true casual guilds shit up the rotation by asking to be on the list. Better adjust it and have Gorenaire as the gatekeeper to getting on the list lol.

You axed it for a play for more pixels. It worked short term, collapsing a couple of genuinely casual guilds so you and your casually hardcore pals (Taken) could take 2 out of 3 class R dragons. That's why CSG formed, because the meta was zerging content.

How could Supremacy, MC, Divinity, or any of the other smaller guilds (read: the TRUE casual guilds) really compete at the time?

Answer: they couldn't (and you knew it)
The rotation was created solely by the players ( like Chest ) and the ruleset the server laid out was always a rotating lockout system designed to choke guilds that wanted to kill everything all the time in Class R.

If Taken/BDA never played ball to start, you wouldnt have had a rotation outside of that '3rd' spawn of each Class R mob which would have worked because that would have been an improvement to 0 raid content for the very casual guilds.

It is because of the patience of Taken/BDA that the system was spearheaded into something that had ground to stand on and it lasted for basically a full year til Velious was announced and loftier goals were created.

The end.
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  #294  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:40 PM
Erati Erati is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I was referencing the fact that it's not about how good you are at the game but how good you are at gaming the system. There's a reason "fraps or it didn't happen" and "lawyerquest" are idioms here. A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans. There's probably 20 man hours a week put into making your case that you deserved the mob.

If everyone always played by the rules in good faith, there'd be no problems. If 5 guilds could race and then 4 of them said, "Congrats" to the winner, walk away and try again next week, you'd see more "competition". But RnF/Raid Discussion/Personal Experience says that doesn't happen.
Reading this post tells me you read into the forum propaganda way to much for your 'details' of what happens during some raid encounters.

No up and coming guilds would not have to go through the same level of lawyering that A/A employ - not in the slightest. Yes those guilds would have to follow the rules though (lol?) but I have yet to see any cases where an 'A' had an issue with a smaller guild's raid target that couldnt be solved with simple in game tells to leadership. The petition quest happens because A/A want to make the other suffer for some reason, and we are cut throat when we feel we have a violation against the other entity.

We ( cant speak for Aftermath tho but I assume this sentiment is true) rarely care and most the time are happy when other guilds are killing shit/contesting. It would be foolish to scare people away because thats what keeps things fresh and fun.

I will say its much easier to live in fear and keep your guns clutched to your chest then step out and try some of this stuff.
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  #295  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:41 PM
Swish Swish is offline
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Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The rotation was created solely by the players ( like Chest ) and the ruleset the server laid out was always a rotating lockout system designed to choke guilds that wanted to kill everything all the time in Class R.

If Taken/BDA never played ball to start, you wouldnt have had a rotation outside of that '3rd' spawn of each Class R mob which would have worked because that would have been an improvement to 0 raid content for the very casual guilds.

It is because of the patience of Taken/BDA that the system was spearheaded into something that had ground to stand on and it lasted for basically a full year til Velious was announced and loftier goals were created.

The end.
Neither guild belonged in a "casual" rotation with that many players per encounter (I remember over 200 players in Sebilis for a Trakanon R-FFA, comprised of BDA/Taken/CSG). You think smaller guilds were even going to try? Hell, even CSG slowed down its appearances at those.

Couldn't step up to Class C because you couldn't compete but at the same time wanted to zerg/dominate Class R.

Should have had the balls and contested where you belonged.

Omni, Europa, AG, Supremacy, Moonlight Crusaders, A-Team (if not for doing "more with less" members they could have probably stepped up), Anonymous, and whoever else I missed were the casual guilds of the time. What was needed that obviously wouldn't have suited the rule makers was some kind of progression rule.
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  #296  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:41 PM
Nommis Nommis is offline
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Can we get a rotation going on Stormfeather? I really want an eyepatch but all these casual neckbeards won't let me have one. Think about it.
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  #297  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:44 PM
Brut Brut is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
A new guild coming into the raid scene not only has to put in the hours of tracking and parking, but they also have to contend with all of the cheating and training that doesn't get caught on fraps. They need to have dedicated fraps runners for the entirety of a window and be ready to submit a petition when their mob gets taken from them due to shenanigans.
Hearsay, all of it.
This is by far the most honest the raidscene has ever been. Long since are gone the days of TMOs SKs and monks blatantly training their competition on fraps, then the petition threads going unanswered and the same crap going on week in week out. A/A are both terrified of any fraps showing any random lost app dropping a single trash bone skeleton on their competition at DN, since it can lead to 10 days off.

Most of the "omg we got trained"-stories these days people come up with are just messed up kites/trainups, people buffing/healing their pullers, etc goofy nonsense that chalk up to inexperience. Far cry from days of Zeetool bursting out of firewall with every mob in there and flopping them right ontop of CT the moment the competition dared to engage it.
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  #298  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:45 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Reading this post tells me you read into the forum propaganda way to much for your 'details' of what happens during some raid encounters.

No up and coming guilds would not have to go through the same level of lawyering that A/A employ - not in the slightest. Yes those guilds would have to follow the rules though (lol?) but I have yet to see any cases where an 'A' had an issue with a smaller guild's raid target that couldnt be solved with simple in game tells to leadership. The petition quest happens because A/A want to make the other suffer for some reason, and we are cut throat when we feel we have a violation against the other entity.

We ( cant speak for Aftermath tho but I assume this sentiment is true) rarely care and most the time are happy when other guilds are killing shit/contesting. It would be foolish to scare people away because thats what keeps things fresh and fun.

I will say its much easier to live in fear and keep your guns clutched to your chest then step out and try some of this stuff.
This cons dubious. I expect it might be true maybe the first time or two someone else contested, but it would devolve quickly.
  #299  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:45 PM
Erati Erati is offline
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Originally Posted by Swish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Couldn't step up to Class C because you couldn't compete but at the same time wanted to zerg/dominate Class R.
.
This is correct - Class C competition was even more fiercer and scarier than competing with A/A today.

The barrier of entry to VP key your raid force for Class C made it impossible for any guild to enter. Looking back, since Taken/BDA are a common 'root' of rotational problems - having Trakanon ever rotate to Class C was the issue.

If guilds were suppose to progress up to Class C and VP was the big prize, Class C should have never had a 'free' Trakanon and the dragon should have just rotated FFA/R. This would have allowed Taken/BDA type guilds to properly key up a raid force to move to the next tier. In fact, we probably should have not rotated Trakanon at all in Class R and set him aside for aspiring Class C guilds...

Oh well.
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  #300  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:49 PM
Erati Erati is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This cons dubious. I expect it might be true maybe the first time or two someone else contested, but it would devolve quickly.
again - you are living in fear which I can understand but I am merely explaining what happens in practice coming from a raid leader of one of the As.

We dont care if other guilds contest and take our shit - but you better do it in a way that coincides with the server rules.

If a violation is repeated over and over again, sure a petition might occur but I would wager it would rarely come to that as A/A are not swashbuckling cannibal savages, we would be the first to congratulate any guild on a well won race/kill. Most raid violations are usually misunderstandings where people find themselves at the wrong place and the wrong time, its rarely anything devious or malicious.

People do need to be held accountable for their actions though and thats why fraps are so popular for violations because photos dont lie regardless of the good natured intent.
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Last edited by Erati; 01-10-2017 at 12:51 PM..
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