Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[byzah]

The patch notes are confusing as I deleted my chanter in 2001 yet I can remember memming inviz to break charm early.

Unreliable witness, obviously [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll get my coat.

[byzah]

Originally Posted by kul69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There has already been enough evidence provided to prove you're wrong and that there are core mechanics broken like MR rate, invis, etc.

Wrong about inviz, definitely possible. Wrong about classic viability of Charm - no. I was there. I used it. It worked*.

Note that's not the same thing as saying that the current strategy isn't cheesy or unbalancing and that no action should be taken in the interests of balance [at the expense of authenticity). I don't like it as a tactic either. I don't like teaming with enchanters and I'll never play one so long as this is a thing.

* Unlike Lull line, which really did suck (so badly that I didn't even buy the spells on my cleric all the way to the one they released around the GoD/OoW era which actually functioned)

[strawman]

Originally Posted by kul69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

NEcro lifetaps aren't 100% unresistable and they can't give fine steel or low delay weapons to pet while keeping max damage. Two things that made Necro completely dominate classic even more than broken Enchanter does today in "classic" P99. Staff nerfed due to trivializing content same as should be done to ENchanter.

Do you have a link to the thread with evidence for this, and the staff stating they nerfed it in spite of the evidence that it worked differently in classic?

[bwe]

Originally Posted by byzah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The patch notes are confusing as I deleted my chanter in 2001 yet I can remember memming inviz to break charm early.

Unreliable witness, obviously [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll get my coat.

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

[byzah]

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

Unless they went back and forth on it?

I do have a "proper" memory of sitting down in Unrest and memming Inviz to remove charm there as the team didn't want my pet hanging around after a fight. I was a high elf - so no Hide.

One nerf to necros regarding charm that I recall was that necros would camp a named and charm one mob then set it on the named then FD. They could stay FD (100% safe assuming no AEs in range) and their pet would keep fighting. The nerf was that FD would break charm after X seconds.

[strawman]

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

This link didn't work for me but I did go back and start looking at alt.games.everquest.

May 2001:

Greets,
I just hit 12 with one of my many alts, (Enchanter this time) and
picked up Charm as one of my new spells. With mez and mem-blure it
seems like the perfect tool for soloing. Needless to say I haven't had
time to try it out yet. Any suggestions or comments?

Cheers

soloing an enchanter? brave, very brave indeed.
The charm is prety good. Charm a critter, kill another one with it and kill
your weakened one after that. Saves time.

As someone else pointed out, SoW is pretty much a necessity for charm
soloing. Make sure you always keep the mob your pet is fighting
rooted. That way when charm breaks you have only one mob coming at you
instead of two. Stay far enough away that you can charm or mez/charm
again when it breaks.

You usually don't open with charm, mez/tash/charm instead, or just
tash/charm if you're that confident in your channeling skill. Tash
seems to help quite a bit in charm duration.

Charisma helps. I don't think anyone's done any comparitive studies to see
how much it helps, but Verant says it does.

But what helps even more is tash. Tash that mob before you charm it, and
the charm will last for a LONG time.

I haven't had very good luck with using charm to solo. But I find it
works wonderfully in a group where there is someone to cover my back.
If the group pulls a couple mobs and one is a green or blue con caster I
often charm the caster, assist main tank, and /pet attack.
I generally warn the group that I might be casting charm, and try to let
them know which mob is charmed. Otherwise they might waste quite a bit
of effort on it.

I've heard that higher charisma makes charm last longer. Boosted mine a
bit and it seems to help.

Sounds like people were doing nearly the same thing we are now in 2001.

[mycoolrausch]

From Feb 2000:

Kentoo Bryteblade

"steve" <_-srhe...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ggGn4.20503$MN.87996@news2.jacksonville.net.. .
<SNIP>

> I have many many times
> and EVERYTIME I try to charm a spec, I just hope my sow I just traded a
> clarity for don't run out. Now I have seen level 44+ enchanters that have
> every cha (i.e. cha=200)(ie = twinked out) item in the game (almost) on
the
> character, charm specs, but even then the spec breaks the charm! usually
in
> less time it would take for the spec to kill other specs. SO our charm is
> almost worthless. please prove me wrong
Well I don't know about soloing spec island, but my wife and I can do three
or four using mes and charm...she has no significant problem charming specs
and hasn't since about level 35 (she's 40 now and I'm 37th and a warrior).
She has soloed two specs using one charmed to kill the other, then burning
the former pet. The key is to let the specs fight it out...only casting
enough to let your pet stay ahead in damage, and medding the rest of the
time (and yes same strategy for clopses and HGs). Ensure you let your pet
take allot of damage, go invis to break the charm, then mes and burn.

[ArunaGreen]

Originally Posted by strawman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the most reasonable post in the thread.

There are also obviously a lot of people here who want enchanters nerfed and have figured out that "it's not classic!" is the P99 equivalent of "it's not balanced!" for a commercial MMO.

Charm soloing in 2019 is a lot harder and more frustrating than people are making it out to be in this thread. I'm sure it was even worse in 1999 on dialup connections. It's also very powerful and rewarding.

Nerfing away everything powerful and difficult will eventually turn this game into WOW, where instead of meaningful class choices you have 11 different colors of the exact same gameplay.

You're COMPLETELY retarded if you think charm is even remotely balanced. The naggy kill that just happened would literally have been impossible without a hasted charmed pet that BS's for more than double what a max rogue with BiS gear would be capable of. Charm is BY FAR the most broken spell in the entire game and to say it doesn't need to be nerfed is actually moronic.

[jacob54311]

Originally Posted by ArunaGreen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're COMPLETELY retarded if you think charm is even remotely balanced. The naggy kill that just happened would literally have been impossible without a hasted charmed pet that BS's for more than double what a max rogue with BiS gear would be capable of. Charm is BY FAR the most broken spell in the entire game and to say it doesn't need to be nerfed is actually moronic.

I guess the key point here is, was it like this in the first year or two of EQ?

Because they are leaving in a lot of things that were pretty bad ideas but were part of the game early on, like hybrid XP penalties.

[bwe]

but not necro fine steel dagger or feign death pet killing for example