List Integrity

[nenja]

I posted this in the sticky outlining the List system, and I'm just now seeing this thread, so I figure I'll share the same sentiments here.

Rather than devising mechanics to account for and accommodate the countless ways players will potentially try to game/abuse the system, would it not just make the most sense for any qualifying player (i.e. appropriate level, in zone) be allowed to loot a 'copy' of the item. I.e. The corpse remains for the usual time and every player on the list can loot the corpse to receive a copy of the item? Perhaps keep the one week lockout for those items that are not NO DROP.

I realize this would affect the economy of certain items (e.g. Manastone), but at the end of the day, what are we really accomplishing by creating an unnecessary gate on some of these items? I'm not sure a perceived sense of prestige is a good reason. Overall player enjoyment should be the prevailing principle and while this list system is certainly better than the default behavior, I am not sure either really makes sense. If we all walk away happy, I don't think anyone is going to complain for a moment that some number of other players were also able to receive an item.

The original system exists solely because the producer wanted to ensure players needed to continue to pump revenue into their coffers through continued subs. Keeping a flawed system for the sake of trying to stay true to the original version of the game doesn't always make sense. In other words, doing something because it's always been done a certain way doesn't make it right or, as is often the case here, fun.

[Phaezed-Reality]

hmm nenja, i never thought of verant that way. interesting theory about making items hard to get to profit more. or was that sony at the time? i dont even remember anymore

[Meiva]

Some wont be happy with that. Epeen is all they have left now. Thank goodness they are only the vocal minority. I think yours is just too generous. EQ isn't known for being too generous.

Remove list and do not ever remove manastone drop. It's no longer legacy.

[aaezil]

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I posted this in the sticky outlining the List system, and I'm just now seeing this thread, so I figure I'll share the same sentiments here.

Rather than devising mechanics to account for and accommodate the countless ways players will potentially try to game/abuse the system, would it not just make the most sense for any qualifying player (i.e. appropriate level, in zone) be allowed to loot a 'copy' of the item. I.e. The corpse remains for the usual time and every player on the list can loot the corpse to receive a copy of the item? Perhaps keep the one week lockout for those items that are not NO DROP.

I realize this would affect the economy of certain items (e.g. Manastone), but at the end of the day, what are we really accomplishing by creating an unnecessary gate on some of these items? I'm not sure a perceived sense of prestige is a good reason. Overall player enjoyment should be the prevailing principle and while this list system is certainly better than the default behavior, I am not sure either really makes sense. If we all walk away happy, I don't think anyone is going to complain for a moment that some number of other players were also able to receive an item.

The original system exists solely because the producer wanted to ensure players needed to continue to pump revenue into their coffers through continued subs. Keeping a flawed system for the sake of trying to stay true to the original version of the game doesn't always make sense. In other words, doing something because it's always been done a certain way doesn't make it right or, as is often the case here, fun.

The most sick here (dannyl, detoxx, maner types) derive their only enjoyment in EQ from “denying other’s pixels” - their words not mine. Locking down content had been a “feature” of p99 backed by staff forever now sadly thats just the reality. Theres no “competiton” left if everyone gets free pixels in their / the staffs eyes.

[nenja]

A compromise, then, could be to allow #1 to receive the item and everyone else on the list have a certain chance (e.g. 30% or something) of also getting a copy. This is similar to other games' loot systems (e.g. WOW) and I can tell you from personal experience that it make an immense difference in addressing these types of issues.

I would like to believe we can enact change if we encourage and push for better mechanics and not allow a few vocal people dictate them for all. As someone else said much earlier in the thread, this is one reason raid rules are as obscene as they are. Non-instanced raid bosses is the root of it, but that's for another discussion.

[Rooj]

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think anyone is going to complain for a moment that some number of other players were also able to receive an item.

You are so incredibly wrong about this. Part of the reason people play Everquest on P99 is its harsh and "hardcore" nature, and the difficulty of obtaining rare items.

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Overall player enjoyment should be the prevailing principle

Originally Posted by nenja [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In other words, doing something because it's always been done a certain way doesn't make it right or, as is often the case here, fun.

The staff is trying to recreate Classic EQ - even with all of its issues, even with all of the things that aren't "fun." And many of the players are here for those same reasons. Everyone and their mother running around with a Manastone is not Classic. IMO we probably are already at a non-Classic amount of Manastones.

Do I want QoL features? Yes, but I know they go against the design philosophy of the P99 staff, so I will never expect them, and is one reason I play TLP from time to time. The fact that there is even a list system for legacy items is a pretty fucking incredible spectacle, something people should be way way way more grateful for.

There are things I hate about P99 and things I hate about TLP, and things I love about both, sadly can't have it both ways.

[nenja]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are so incredibly wrong about this. Part of the reason people play Everquest on P99 is its harsh and "hardcore" nature, and the difficulty of obtaining rare items.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to say "so incredibly wrong." I do agree we want rare items to exist and have meaning when we obtain them. For this reason, I think a % chance system is better than this /list feature. It's a poor solution, really, to an already poor mechanic. I definitely appreciate that the staff is trying to make a change, but this was shortsighted.

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by Krazzeekane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just read every single post on all 35 pages, this is absolute gold. The amount of backtracking by Grakken and Mez is stunning. I loved Grakken's lie about how he wasn't in the group:


and then when you look at the Screenshot of what was posted, it shows Grakken IN THE GROUP.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does he think people are blind and if he lies hard enough people will believe it? What scumbags we have on this server, this is why new people are scared to come here. This is just sad that people have to be explained to why they should help. For shame..for shame. Your parents would be ashamed of you, of course this is provided that they ever even taught you how to help or about "The Golden Rule" at all. Treat others how you want to be treated, end of story.

I don't think you understood my point. Three people came to the conclusion I was gonna heal for them. I was not one of them. I was not in the group. Five minutes later I joined the group. This idea I had agreed to heal for a group just never happened. Look at them talking to me in say and replying in group. Not the behavior someone would engage in if I was in the group.

[beeshma_nameless]

Why join the group at all anyway 5 minutes later, if you expected someone to solo the ph and EE if it spawned?

[Grakken]

Originally Posted by beeshma_nameless [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why join the group at all anyway 5 minutes later, if you expected someone to solo the ph and EE if it spawned?

For the chat. The "pop in 30 seconds" . I fully intended to sick my pet while I was watching TV shows.