Proposal: Plane of Growth Agreement

[getsome]

Rustle will participate and take the spot after CSG.

[Detoxx]

Aftermath is officially resigning from this agreement in hopes of better terms.

[getsome]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aftermath is officially resigning from this agreement in hopes of better terms.

I was told Rustle can not use outside help and be part of this rotation. If we get big enough for a guild solo Tunare attempt, we may consider something in the future.

As Awakened and Aftermath have decided to leave this agreement, and we were never really a part of it. Please accept my thanks for trying to get something going.


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[Breaken]

You were not told you could not use outside help. As you posted what I said, you can clearly see that I said you can use outside help. You are expected to sign up with your "usual" alliance if you have one. Like I said in that exact message, I thought that was clear in my original poat. Obviously it was not.

[paroxysmal]

Why doesn't rustle just sign up as Rustle/Anonymous (RA) alliance for the purposes of tunare? You already have allied with them on most of the content this week. Or is this not something that anonymous wants to do?

Also, FV would like an attempt when we can get fit into the current rotation if possible please.

Additionally, Detoxx what more favorable conditions are you waiting for if not a straight up rotation?

[bktroost]

"9) If any guild desires to leave this rotation, they shall post here with notice. The length of the notice shall be the length of the current rotation.
"


Since it is currently AMs rotation slot, the rotation will remain intact with all current accepted party members until the time that would be AM's next rotation slot and they will be dropped from the rotation at that point and the rotation will move to the next slot holder or new guild looking to sign up for a slot (in this case, FV's first attempt).

[Breaken]

Awakened is also dropping out. We will work to change the language if it is still something everyone is interested in. As of 4/20/2017, this iteration of the PoG Agreement will be concluded.

As for Qani's question, Rustle doesn't always use Anonymous. What we were told last night is that Anonymous "and friends" would like a shot at Tunare. Rustle mentioned something about using Infernus for help on their turn, which is what brought my comment. My understanding is that Infernus was going to be part of Anonymous' attempt, and at the same time, Rustle's. With that, I mentioned that if a guild is going to always solicit help, they cannot hold their own spot. That is something I thought I made clear with my CSG point. I understand it is a little different in that CSG always uses CSG and Rustle planned to use random guilds each time, but then Rustle would need to show they can occupy that slot themselves.

At least, that was my intention with the agreement. So, Awakened will work with any guild looking to be part of the new iteration of the agreement to see if we can come up with better wording.

[Pan]

So it looks like we need to finish this thing out with some sanity, then, given this clause:

9) If any guild desires to leave this rotation, they shall post here with notice. The length of the notice shall be the length of the current rotation.

Since the inception, the order has been:

Awakened (success)
Aftermath (fail)
CSG (success)
Rustle (fail)
Awakened (success)
(Aftermath gives resignation notice)
(FV wants to join)
(Awakened gives resignation notice)

The question, then, is what is the "length of the rotation". The intent in 9 (above) is for each guild in the rotation to finish out one shot at Tunare before it dissolves.

9) (continued) This means if only Awakened and Aftermath are on the rotation, two weeks must be given. If a third joins, three weeks must be given. This prevents a guild from having their turn and then abandoning it to get another.

Breaken's "weeks" here are attempts (7-day spawn +1 week in which to kill) - as made clear by the phrase "length of the rotation".

So to finish the "length of the rotation" that all who have signed up join have agreed to, it must be determined who is/was "in the rotation".

It's clear that Awakened is given their 2/2 success.
Aftermath is 0/1. And there is some dispute as to whether they were "in" automatically given past history before signing, or if everyone who signed (Awak and Amath) on from the inception and going forward were probationary participants. (see 7) If a guild attempting to join the rotation fails to kill Tunare, they shall not request again for one month.)
CSG is in given their 1/1 success.
Rustle is not in given their 0/1 failure, yet continue to be bound by the one-month cool-down.

The sanest reading that I can give is that the "rotation" continues like this to the end:

Amath next (probably should be grandfathered given past ability and because original signer). Spawn is due 25th. They're still on suspension but will have 4-5 days to execute and would be willing to.
CSG after that.
Awakened after that.
End of rotation.
Rustle sits the remainder of the one-month cooldown. (Awakened's 2nd success was the Tunare that Rustle left up.)

The three biggest questions about wrapping the current thing up are:
1) Is Amath truly part of the rotation? Were they grandfathered in and guaranteed a spot (that's my take)? Or were they probationary upon signing (which seems silly to me)?
2) What to do with FV? They signed on/up after Amath gave resignation notice. It doesn't seem to make sense to extend something for a fresh try after a party resigned - and hold that resigning party to an extension of something from which they resigned after the fact.
3) How does Rustle behave? Do they honor the finishing up of the rotation proper because they applied to join? Or do they sit their one-month and begin sniping thereafter?

If Amath is still in, to complete the thing, Amath, CSG, and Awakened need one more attempt each to kill the agreement.

If Amath was not grandfathered, it is completed after CSG and Awakened get one more attempt each before it ends.

Whatever the case, this needs to be decided quickly by the stakeholders. The next spawn is tomorrow and the clock starts ticking on that week to kill.

Alternatively, all involved can broker a new agreement (unanimity key here).

The current one seems to make sense, mostly, apart from people picking at it some.

So some clarifications may be needed on:
1. What constitutes an "attempt" (suggest we remove the notion of "attempt" and allow the entity the week after the spawn to either execute or concede early if possible (to keep the thing moving).

2. Define double-dipping better. (Rustle wants to kill Tunare regularly, it seems, but may want to use different partners in their slot. That makes sense to me, but so does the notion of any single guild not doubling up with anyone else who is actually in the rotation proper). In other words, ensure that any single guild doesn't participate in more than one kill per rotation cycle.

3. Identify those who are "in" already. Do we grandfather those who have succeeded in the past? Or does everyone start fresh as an applicant. Makes sense to me to have history of a solo kill (by entity) "in". But either way would work practically if it were clarified in advance.

4. Make clear WHERE in the order a new guild (or entity) would show up in the rotation. IF the rotation is longer than the one-month cooldown (and with 3 the cycle could take a maximum of 42 days), the one-month is meaningless if they can take the next shot (as it currently reads). i.e. if they took next, the cooldown would be obviated (meaningless). But if it's one month AND back of the line for next attempt, that could be 72 days (10 weeks). Which is a heavy penalty for failing, but probably makes the most sense big picture. Suggest giving new applicants "next" slot (as it reads), and then one-month plus back of the line on a fail. With the caveat that they agree to leave it alone for that time should they not choose to take a shot within the rotation.

5. What to do if someone's turn gets sniped. i.e. do you have to defend your turn for the entire week...or does the rotation agree to eat the snipe and leave the order in place (makes most sense to me). Or does the staff come over the top and tell people that if they want in on Tunare, use the agreement b/c headache and "player-made" agreement?

LONG post. But lots in the air. And the new spawn is tomorrow.

Suggest people come together with some goodwill, e-peens zipped up tight, and the need to lawyer around put aside and hammer out something new that includes some clarifications and accounts for FV wanting to join and Rustle as member/applicant with the ability to use others but not have any in use double dipping.

[Pan]

And shit, forgot:

6) what to do with rotation turns that happen within a suspension. My take would be skip and count as fail and move to next IF the entire window to perform falls within the suspension. But I don't care how it plays out. But dealing with Tunare in suspension needs to be added if we forge a new agreement.

[getsome]

For what it is worth, the rotation ended because it was overly complex and the drafted completely to the advantage of few guilds. All the clauses were done so Tunare could be attempted in the "non kael / tov window." And clauses severely punished new guilds coming in.

You can see now, how much disagreement their is now between everyone who was in it. AM / AW / CSG .

A simple version such as the ring war is advisable. You got x time, and then it goes ffa. and the rotation just chugs along. If the 7 day window when the mob was up was shortened to 2-3 days, you would probable see as many spawns, even with guilds failing.

If you are worried about people jumping on top of you while you are trying an FFA tunare, I would just add the simple thought. People dont shit on people who dont shit on them.