ZEM chart wiki question for Loramin

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It might be the case that mobs are worth more raw xp here on P99. No way to tell without mind-controlling someone with database access.

Is anyone a telepath?

If this were the case, the exp formulas on the wiki wouldn't ever make sense unless ZEMs were all wrong in precisely the right way to make it look like those formulas are actually right. Which seems improbable or impossible to me.


Regarding stats, Lor? I think this is more an issue of a larger sample having less room for user error. Judging the % of my level I'm at by looking at the exp bar leaves room for error, both on the number of pixels there displaying it and on my eye.

If I count kills from ding to ding, then being 1% off in my estimation of my yellow bar is less of a factor than if I kill mobs for one yellow.

[zaneosak]

Was this experiment on white cons? It's really hard to get it perfect unless it's white cons or you 100% know the level of every mob (or at least very close to every mob) Interesting stuff.

I did calculate on Bloodgills (which are only a range of 3 levels) using their median level an entire level on my necro on blue and found the ZEM to be 100% accurate , within 4 kills actually, which can be accounted for in level variance.

It's always good to see these kinds of calculations.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Was this experiment on white cons? It's really hard to get it perfect unless it's white cons or you 100% know the level of every mob (or at least very close to every mob) Interesting stuff.

I did calculate on Bloodgills (which are only a range of 3 levels) using their median level an entire level on my necro on blue and found the ZEM to be 100% accurate , within 4 kills actually, which can be accounted for in level variance.

It's always good to see these kinds of calculations.

Like I said, I verified level range on the spiders by their max hits.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Regarding stats, Lor? I think this is more an issue of a larger sample having less room for user error. Judging the % of my level I'm at by looking at the exp bar leaves room for error, both on the number of pixels there displaying it and on my eye.

If I count kills from ding to ding, then being 1% off in my estimation of my yellow bar is less of a factor than if I kill mobs for one yellow.

Absolutely. I just meant ... there's a mathematical way you can you be reasonably certain that ___ yellow bubbles (or whatever) is enough. You may well have passed that threshold, and I wasn't trying to say that you didn't. I was just saying "I know that a threshold exists, but I don't know what it is."

Originally Posted by zaneosak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Was this experiment on white cons? It's really hard to get it perfect unless it's white cons or you 100% know the level of every mob (or at least very close to every mob) Interesting stuff.

I did calculate on Bloodgills (which are only a range of 3 levels) using their median level an entire level on my necro on blue and found the ZEM to be 100% accurate , within 4 kills actually, which can be accounted for in level variance.

It's always good to see these kinds of calculations.

This raises an excellent point: even though you confirmed a wiki number, the fact that you confirmed it is useful info on its own. It makes the LOIO number "better" than most other ZEMs, as it's "confirmed".

It seems to me it'd be handy if people could indicate such confirmation in the wiki somehow. The simplest way I can think of would be to edit that table at the bottom of: http://wiki.project1999.com/Recommen...s_and_ZEM_List, to fill in the "P99" column (and then when you do you could include your "proof" in the edit message?)

[tommydgun]

As a stats / math person I can safely say this is not a statistical problem. This is a math problem. If you are certain of the formulas for exp to level and exp per mob then you dont need to worry about sample sizes that's a simple math equation.

[astuce999]

Originally Posted by tommydgun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As a stats / math person I can safely say this is not a statistical problem. This is a math problem. If you are certain of the formulas for exp to level and exp per mob then you dont need to worry about sample sizes that's a simple math equation.

It would be a math problem if we knew all that. But I think the whole point is that we don't know the exp per mob as a number, only as an increment of yellow in a bubble. So he's thinking of needing to go to a whole level to hear "ding" to be able to figure out exactly what the exp per mob is as a number, to then be able to figure out the ZEM, and Loramin was wondering if there was a way to determine before that if the sample size was enough to be "good enough".

Let's say he did 3 yellows, and the first yellow took 19 mobs, the second yellow 20 mobs, and the third yellow 21 mobs. How confidently would he be able to claim that the number of mobs needed to level is 100 so that he could then determine the ZEM?

cheers,

Astuce

[ewjax]

Just as FYI, if you want more accuracy in your exp bar percentages - turns out if you look at your exp bar at the trainer, the blue bars still show. 1x yellow bubble = 20%, 1x blue bubble = 4%.

Might help your data precision a bit.

[Tecmos Deception]

Well, I take back what I said earlier. I think Najena really is 130 ZEM.

It took 41 spider kills to go through all of level 26 as a wizard. The spiders range in level from 18 to 22, presumably evenly distributed. 18s were green at 26, but I don't think the 19s were. The math works out to right about ZEM 130 if I use level 20 as the level for all 41 kills in the formulas.

I don't think that some were green and potentially giving reduced exp is enough to throw the numbers off since the greens were the 1/5 (or so) of spiders giving the smallest amount of exp anyway, and the higher levels don't give only proportionally more because the exp formula squares level.