Game Mechanics: Classic ZEM values, and special ZEM for levels 1-6

[Dolalin]

Another post from ShowEQ.net shedding some light on what I think happened with these ZEMs between 2001 and 2003 when the more widely-circulated ShowEQ ZEM list was compiled:

03-07-2002, 09:21 PM
Cryonic

I could have sworn the xp gained from a mob had nothing to do with your level except if you were < level 6.

Exp gained from mob:
Level * level * ZEM * Class

Exp needed to level

(Level^3 - (Level -1)^3)*Race*Class*LMOD

Class is now in both equations for all classes but Rogues and Warriors because VI took out the class penalties by multiplying the exp gained by your class penalty. Warriors and Rogues still benefit from having a Class mod of .9 (vs. the Equivalent of 1 for all other classes).

LMOD is as follows:

Level < 30: 1
Level < 35: 1.1
Level < 40: 1.2
Level < 45: 1.3
Level < 51: 1.4
Level < 52: 1.5
Level < 53: 1.6
Level < 54: 1.7
Level < 55: 1.9
Level < 56: 2.0
Level < 57: 2.1
Level < 58: 2.2
Level < 59: 2.3
Level < 60: 2.4

ZEM varies based on zone, but in general:
75 Outdoors
85 Indoors
100 Dungeons

Then VI Revamed some of the unused dungeons giving them a ZEM as high as 125 (KerraRidge).

Your level only affects the fact that the MOST EXP you can gain from any ONE mob or quest is 12% of your TOTAL level.

http://www.showeq.net/forums/showthr...ull=1#post3401

Another confirmation of the special level 1-6 newbie ZEM btw.

[Dolalin]

Some older newsgroup posts from the 2000's. This one is pretty good because it references Najena, which later on seemed to have a ZEM of 130 (2003 data) but here is given as 80 (standard non-Kunark dungeon zone ZEM). Additionally there is a mention by the previous poster that ZEMs varied between 75 and 105:

5/4/00

> the formula for mob experience is (level^2)*multiplier. The multiplier for
> nearly all outdoor mobs is 75. The multiplier for dungeon mobs varies between
> 75 and 105. Usually this multiplier is constant within a zone, but in some
> cases (casters vs non-casters in mistmoore) it varies.

The highest modifier I had heard of being proven was 80 (Ogre guards in
Najena). But anything is possible.
I'd like to see what the modifier in some of the Kunark dungeons is as
many of the MoBs there are tougher for their level and the Iksar have an
XP penalty. Wonder if they offset themselves.
Ahh well. That's a question for one of the "other" boards. Didn't mean to
get into it here.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....8/R5v40v5fwBkJ

ShowEQ data was very raw at this time and people were still digesting it and figuring things like ZEM out, so I would view Casey's posts as more authoritative where there's disagreement.

[Dolalin]

I just found a ShowEQ experience guide from mid-2000.

Disclaimer: I did not write this and it has been passed around and posted on many sites. I have, as well as friends have, tested it to the best of our ability and it is close if not accurate. Biggest issue I have is the base *75 for outdoor zones. It is obvious and well known by many that certain places you just get more experience.

...

1. The exp given by every mob in the game = (mob level) * (mob level) * X.

There are four major catagories of mobs, 'newbie' (levels 1-4), 'low' (level 5-6), 'outdoor' (level 7+), and 'dungeon' (any level). The category determines the X value, which are as follows:

Outdoor: 75
Dungeon: 80
Low: 100
Newbie: Varies by zone. Anywhere from 103 to 114 have been recorded.

Therefore, every mob gives a fixed amount of exp, assuming it is in normal exp ranges (blue to red). Starting in the low-mid levels, mobs that are one level green give 50% of the exp that they should. Once into the mid levels, mobs that are two levels green start giving 25% of the exp they would if they were blue or higher.

http://web.archive.org/web/200010311...es/showeq.html

A little muddy but it adds something.

[Dolalin]

Here we go. Some hard numbers from the newsgroups on ZEMs from 2001.

These numbers are taken from http://eqzem.cjb.net/ which I see referenced everywhere in this time period but which wasn't archived properly on web.archive.org.

5/12/01

"Elliot Williams" <su...@look.ca> wrote in message
news:L6%K6.69610$2_.24009934@news3.rdc1.on.home.co m...
> All the zones you mention above are newbie zones, and they all have
> higher modifiers than any wilderness zone. They also used to be higher
> than any dungeon zone, though that did change with the exp bonuses
> added a few months back. Even so, most newbie zones are still higher
> than most dungeons. Also, all newbie zones do not have the same
> modifiers.

It looks like the newbie zone modifiers went away, perhaps with the
experience system changes back in January. After more digging, I found out
that the base ZEM used in ShowEQ is 75, and the numbers listed on the page
at http://eqzem.cjb.net/ are added to that 75 base. The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus. Prior to being
nerfed, LOIO had a 33% bonus, resulting in a ZEM of 100. There were a few
posts on Hackersquest about the easy experience in LOIO being removed.

> However, if you run an experiment, kill several even cons in Gfay and the
> same number in Crushbone, you will get more exp for the Gfay kills.

This is incorrect. GFay has a 75 ZEM, and Crushbone 80 ZEM. But, frankly,
can we really see the difference that 6.66% makes in our levelling? I doubt
it. On the other hand, I think that getting 33% more experience in LOIO
would have been noticeable.

I'm not trying to be the great arguer of ZEM's and whatnot. But, it seems
like many things about EQ are stated as "fact" over and over again when they
are not. Or, the information is out-dated. Heck, this may have all been
changed in the last patch, and only those people running ShowEQ (not me)
would know about it.

Anita

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....k/XC7BxNSmL7EJ

Crushbone having a ZEM of 80 flies in the face of its current ZEM on P99 based on the 2002/2003 numbers, which is 160.

I believe these ZEMs were mucked around with sometime in Luclin, because Paludal Caverns is the only other zone with a 160 ZEM and it would fit the mold.

(Also, on the subject of ZEM for LOIO since it's in that post: at Kunark release, it seems all the Iksar newbie zones had a ZEM of 100, which was nerfed down to 75 a bit later. Then LOIO was reduced even further because it was overcrowded. ref: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....E/rL8k_44W2V0J )

[loramin]

This is all amazing, and you're amazing Dolalin, but ... I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Nilbog's a bigger EQEmu geek than any of us, so I think the odds are very high he already knew about this. He for certain knew about the old EQEmu ZEMs, and very deliberately made them unclassic here.

So while I would "vote" for this to be fixed with every fiber of my being (because playing here for half a decade has indoctrinated me into the "cult of classic", and this would make Green/Teal so much more classic) ... just be aware that there's a very good chance that Niblog has known about (but purposefully ignored) this data, and won't stop now after keeping unclassic (but sort-of kind-of classically mysterious) ZEMs on P99 for so long.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to brace you for the possibility that all this incredible research may not pay off.

[Dolalin]

More on how these ZEMs got changed:

8/1/03

"Steve" <iams...@internode.on.net> wrote in
news:3...@duster.adelaide.on.net:
> That's some interesting info in that drop down. Crushbone and Befallen
> have the same zem as PC and Kurns is only 10 less too. Could probably
> do well going newb zone > kurns/CB > PC. Kurns is such an easy zone
> too with the tiny agro range of the mobs. Wonder what Sony bases the
> ZEM on? Zone difficulty is definately not the answer
>

Well, pre-PoP, in general Dungeons got bigger ZEM's than
open zones. There was a point a while back (the exact
timing escapes me) when SOE made a big push to get people
under 30 into dungeons. This was when they expanded the
cleric rezzes down to 14, and gave Paladins earlier rezzes.
They also introduced low level evacs and summon corpse.
Finally, they boosted the ZEM on under 30 dungeons (CB and
Befallen come in this category apparently). I think there
are 3 reasons PC sees so much traffic and the others don't:
First, location; PC is simply the easiest of the zones to
get to, considering you can bind 10 seconds away. Second
is word of mouth. Early on in SoL PC was near abandoned,
I leveled my kitty BL in there without anyone sharing the
zone with me for large blocks of time, then the word got
out about the xp there, and it became flooded. Last is
the fast spawn timer in PC. It's so fast that just 5 or
6 shiknar spawn was enough to keep a cleric I was PL'ing
fighting constantly. I want to say 7minutes on those.

--
Mairelon Snapbang, Arch Convoker of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....E/p5tiHw7mCigJ

11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in message
news:PIkrb.3354$aT.3083@news-server.bigpond.net.au...

>
> Im surprised with some of these values. Airplane, fearplane and hateplane
> seem a bit low at 75. Air and hate still need a wizzy to get you there,
and
> fear IS hard for the average mob level.
> Most of the cities have a decent modifier. Kaladim particularly high. (who
> hunts in kaladim?)
> TheGrey at 65? Hello? Shouldnt that make it at least a little higher than
> the average zone?

No. The mobs there are actally very easy. It was the first place AE
killing made it's reappearance during luclin.

> Veeshan 75? hmm its a hard zone to get to, and its a bad zone to wipe in.
> Should be at least 100.
Generally not an experience zone. It was added to be a raid zone.


> Crushbone 160? I dont see any justification to this.
> Guktop 150. I dont see that its all that hard. OK so dungeons are harder,
> but I see plenty of dungeons with much less than 150.

They were to solve a problem. Newbies were not going to dungeons, they
were all leveling up single pulling in Lake of Ill Omen. So Verant tried
to make dungeons more newbie friendly. They revamped the rezes so clerics
got them much earlier, added low level summon corpse and low level
evacuates, and last but not least, gave everything considered a "newbie
dungeon"... Crushbone, Blackburrow, Upper Guk, Kurn's Tower, Paudal Caverns,
etc... an absurdly high experience modifier.


--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 61 Assassin on E'ci

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/6ZjsZK7KqQsJ

11/9/03

"Vladesch" <do...@spam.me> wrote in
news:PIkrb.3354$aT....@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
- show quoted text -

under 30 dungeons all got an extraodinary boost when they put inthe
low level rezes, succors and summon corpse spell. It was part of their
attemp to encourage people to leave the safe old outdoor grind.


--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang of Lanys T'vyl

http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=701866

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt....w/H06-gQgRM0QJ

[Dolalin]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is all amazing, and you're amazing Dolalin, but ... I wouldn't get your hopes too high.

Nilbog's a bigger EQEmu geek than any of us, so I think the odds are very high he already knew about this. He for certain knew about the old EQEmu ZEMs, and very deliberately made them unclassic here.

So while I would "vote" for this to be fixed with every fiber of my being (because playing here for half a decade has indoctrinated me into the "cult of classic", and this would make Green/Teal so much more classic) ... just be aware that there's a very good chance that Niblog has known about (but purposefully ignored) this data, and won't stop now after keeping unclassic (but sort-of kind-of classically mysterious) ZEMs on P99 for so long.

Again, I truly hope I'm wrong, but I'm just trying to brace you for the possibility that all this incredible research may not pay off.

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Dolalin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Devs can do what they like with my info, I just enjoy finding out the truth. We're playing with PoP ZEMs and shit ain't classic. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Amen! I just wanted to warn you since you're doing so much work, but please keep fighting the good fight!

[Dolalin]

Preliminary ZEM list as I figure it should be given what Classic values I have seen here. Very open to suggestions.

These numbers are on the basis that:

- City = 100
- Outdoor = 75
- Vanilla dungeon = 80
- Kedge keep = 100 (special case)
- Kunark / Velious dungeon = 85
- Skyfire = 80 (special case)

Also, some zones were boosted in Jan 2001:

Droga increased by 12%
Nurga increased by 12%
Solusek's Eye (SolA) increased by 13%
Najena increased by 13%
Befallen increased by 13%
Paw increased by 13%
Permafrost increased by 13%
Kaesora increased by 18%
Qeynos Catacombs increased by 20%
Runnyeye increased by 20%
Kerra Ridge increased by 20%
The Hole increased by 25%

While not mentioned in the Producer's Letter, the Zone Experience Modifier has also been increased in Guk (guktop), by roughly 12%.

https://www.project1999.com/forums/a.../t-288909.html

LOIO was a special case. It started out at 100 at Kunark release, then nerfed to 75 in Feb 2001, then was further nerfed to 60 later on (evidence linked further back in this thread).

ANTONICA

Befallen			80 until January 2001, then 90
Blackburrow			80
East Commons			75
East Freeport			75
East Karana			75
Erud's Crossing	 		75
Everfrost			75
Feerrott			75
Gorge of King Xorbb		75
Halas				100
High Keep			80
Highpass Hold			80
Innothule Swamp			75
Kithikor Woods			75
Lake Rathe			75
Lavastorm Mountains		75
Lower Guk			80
Misty Thicket			75
Nagafen's Lair			80
Najena				80 until January 2001, then 90
Nektulos			75
Neriak- Commons			100
Neriak- Foreign Quarter		100
Neriak- Third Gate		100
North Freeport			100
North Karana			75
North Qeynos			100
North Ro			75
Oasis of Marr			75
Ocean of Tears			75 
Oggok				100
Permafrost			80 until January 2001, then 90
Qeynos Hills			75
Qeynos Catacombs		80 until January 2001, then 95
Rathe Mountains			75
Rivervale			100
Runnyeye			80 until January 2001, then 95
Solusek's Eye			80 until January 2001, then 90
South Karana			75
South Ro			75
Splitpaw Lair			80 until January 2001, then 90
Surefall Glade			100
Temple of Cazic Thule		80
Upper Guk			80 until January 2001, then 90 
West Commonlands		75
West Freeport			75
West Karana			75


FAYDWER

Ak'Anon				100
Butcherblock Mountains		75
Castle Mistmoore		80
Crushbone			80
Dagnor's Cauldron		75
Felwithe			100
Greater Faydark			75
Kaladim				100
Kedge Keep			100
Steamfont Mountains		75
Lesser Faydark			75
Ocean of Tears			75	 
Unrest				80


ODUS

Erudin				100
Erud's Crossing	 		75
The Hole			80 until Jan 2001, then 100
Kerra Isle			80 until Jan 2001, then 95
Paineel				75
Stonebrunt Mountains		75
Toxxulia Forest			75
Warrens				80


KUNARK

Burning Woods			75
Cabilis				100
Charasis			85
Chardok				85
City of Mist			85
Dalnir	 			85
Dreadlands			75
Emerald Jungle			75
Field of Bone			75
Fironia Vie			75
Frontier Mountains		75
Kaesora				85 until January 2001, then 100
Karnor's Castle			85
Kurn's Tower			85
Lake of Ill Omen		100 until Feb 2001, then 75, then 60 (when?)
The Mines of Nurga	 	85 until January 2001, then 95
Sebilis				85
Skyfire Mountains		80 (classic evidence for +5 here)
Swamp of No Hope		75
The Overthere			75
Timourous Deep	 		75
Temple of Droga	 		85 until January 2001, then 95
Trakanon's Teeth		75
Veeshan's Peak	 		75
Warsliks Woods			75


VELIOUS

Cobalt Scar			75
Crystal Caverns			85
Dragon Necropolis		85
Eastern Wastes			75
Great Divide			75
Iceclad Ocean			75
Icewell Keep			85
Kael Drakkel			85
Temple of Veeshan		85 
Siren's Grotto			85
Skyshrine			85
Sleeper's Tomb			90 (not sure about this one, double check me)
Thurgadin			85
Tower of Frozen Shadow		85
Velketor's Labyrinth		85
Wakening Lands			75
Western Wastes			80

[Dolalin]

Been thinking about this and based on this post quoted above, I'm thinking City zones should actually have a 75 modifier not a 100:

The "newbie" zones in
Freeport, GFay, and Nek Forest all are shown with a 0% bonus.

Which would make more sense, because you'd think Casey would have said something about it otherwise.