Enchanter OP impact poll

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So first it's "show me the evidence" and then it's "you're only finding the bad evidence."

Read any thread about game mechanics and you'll see contradictions and rampant cluelessness. A single forum post making a claim about a mechanic without describing how they came to their belief is just not credible.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To me this fits into classically OP and needs a nerf. Same as Bard AE kiting, AE groups, pet attack delay from given weapons, etc. The same reasoning around disruption/trivialization of content from a classic mechanic that is too successful due to modern technology can be applied to Enchanter.

People questioning what proof exists. There is already bug reports showing charm was so unreliable and buggy in classic pre-kunark it would mostly result in dying. Everyone knows in classic pets pathed odd, fell through world, etc but on P99 they're almost perfect. We also already proved channeling rates are too high on P99 particularly at lower levels which greatly benefits Enchanter and allows them to survive. Saying there is no evidence just isn't true anymore. Pets as well. All pets across the board have too much HP and Enchanter has a similar pet to Nec/Mag when on live their pet was paper thin and had something like half the other classes pet HP. This is a minor aspect but it's just another way Enchanter gets more unclassic benefits than every other class.

The evidence is all there. P99 Enchanter is mostly accurate for a level 60, max channeling, and highly geared Velious era Enchanter. Except it plays that way from level 1 and the start of classic era. People keep trying to dismiss this. One of the latest Enchanter bug threads even has links to classic era posts of Enchanters talking about how completely useless they are and that they can't even mez. Mez was talked about as an emergency back up and multiple people even said they don't keep it memmed because of how buggy it was.

Live classic Enchanter died all the time from mez in groups where tanks couldn't pull aggro. They didn't tank 3-5 mobs and channel mez through it to solo large groups of mobs.

In a recent bug thread it was also proven mez should not mem blur mobs on recast. If a mob is mezzed, it can be mem blurred, and then it won't blur again until the spell wears off and is reapplied. This meant a mob being re-mezzed was actually stacking up aggro on the Enchanter instead of it being wiped regularly with each re-mez. Mem blur rates are too high on mez as well.

The evidence is there...

Yep. P99 plays more like pop showdows of luclin.

[Keebz]

I don't think many Enchanter spells worked properly at all until Velious or so. As such, this version of game balance, where enchanter spells work extremely well is not historically accurate.

It's important to remember, the eq emu code and values are not 'classic'. They are largely based off (read: guessed from) later versions of the game. Again with emphasis, this is an _emulated_ server. The status quo is no evidence of accuracy.

Unless the devs have deliberately tried to tune chanter mechanics and values to classic levels, they are wrong. I'd love to see where the devs got their current values/formulas.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charm wearing off message didn't work?

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

Classic bugs with Charm

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...ighlight=charm

I considered posting on this one, because I experienced several of these "bugs" while leveling up on P99. Charm silently broke because I forgot I had swapped out charm for memblur or pacify. The thing hitting me in Kedge was an add I didn't see. The charm break message was delayed because my chat window was scrolled up a couple lines.

Maybe player dotted pets really did hit players, that seems more plausible than the other claims.

[azxten]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Read any thread about game mechanics and you'll see contradictions and rampant cluelessness. A single forum post making a claim about a mechanic without describing how they came to their belief is just not credible.

How about the multiple posts about pets attacking group members if DOTed? Pets wandering away? Charm message not working or working inaccurately?

I'm glad I posted all that on the second page of this thread. You can pick and choose but it's clear by the large body of evidence that Enchanter is non-classically OP on P99 and needs a nerf.

My original request was that only channeling be fixed because I feel it is the greatest contributor to Enchanter being OP. There are a lot of things to look at and channeling at least seems well proven at this point.

Actually I've wanted to write out a list again of what seems proven...

1. Mez should only mem blur on initial cast and not on recasts. It had to wear off in order for mem blur to work on recast. This greatly impacts aggro generation on Enchanters and may be a part of the missing extreme aggro situations Enchanters had on live. Remezzing a mob would stack aggro and never blur. Proven via old player posts.

2. Enchanter pet HP is too high. All pet HP seems too high but Enchanter more so since their pet is also classically low on HP compared to Nec/Mag. Proven in old capture provided in bug report.

3. Charm was very buggy. There are many different potential bugs to choose from. Pets warping, wandering away, bad pathing, attacking group members from DOTs, and various bugs with the text messaging you would see related to charm which made it difficult to understand status. Proven via old player posts.

4. AE spells like AE Mez ignored Z axis and went through walls. On P99 this spell is used often where these bugs would result in massive trains and wipes. Proven via old player posts.

5. Channeling rates are much too high on P99. Proven via multiple player reports and TAKP client disassembly data.

There are a few other things which are known but not necessarily proven with as much evidence like mez mem blur rates being too high. As someone said earlier there are stacks of Enchanter bug reports at this point.

[Snortles Chortles]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd enjoy it more if it was even harder for warriors to get yellow/red con mobs off of enchanters.

[Vivitron]

I agree with you that the channeling rate is worth reviewing.

If pathing and ae los were marginally buggier on live I'm not sure that it seems beneficial to try to track down and recreate those bugs.

[Nirgon]

You can get whatever you want here if you cry and threaten to quit enough. No mercy, get it done.

[Snortles Chortles]

it’s pretty ridiculous i can channel 6 second cast dots through melee

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can get whatever you want here if you cry and threaten to quit enough. No mercy, get it done.

IDK, man, I didn't get to keep my server's premier Erud Superiority guild.