Rules regarding camps when someone has gotten the named spawn

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol so your argument is “you can’t judge us for being terrible people because other terrible people exist in the world”

Good one

What is your argument here? That you hate Detoxx and Furoar, but anybody disliking Arcler or Juicebox is some sort of paradox?

[MaCtastic]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, people playing P99 because they can’t afford a 10 dollar subscription to another MMO? Lmao what are you even talking about

The internet alone costs more than $10, unless you live in the basement, then maybe it would be free.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Firstly, with regard to the Detoxx/Vanquish/Aftermath etc. hate. Most people who do this haven't been in those guilds, or play with the people in them. They just jump on the hate bandwagon because it is cool. Or they are an opposing guild so they want to talk shit. Take what they say with a huge grain of salt[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have been in Aftermath, then the AG merger, then Vanquish. All of the people I have interacted with are fine. The guild dynamic reminds me of the old days of the internet, where people weren't afraid to have fun and talk some shit to each other. I understand these days people have become increasingly sensitive, so I get why some people are turned off. Much like P99 not being for everyone, not all guilds are for everyone. That doesn't make the people in them bad. The worst thing you can do in P99 is talk shit lol, it isn't like there are any real consequences. I am not saying there aren't assholes or idiots in the guild, but I don't really see them acting up when I am playing.

I haven't had any problems with Detoxx personally. He yelled at me once because I cost Aftermath an AoW due to me royally screwing up the CH chain. That is understandable in my book, that is a big mob to lose. But you know what? 5 minutes later he apologized, and thanked me for stepping up and being a part of the CH chain when other people wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You should not equate "casual" with "bad." I don't know anything about that other game, but in any case that's a bad look on an EQ forum since this is a game where even the most inept high-hours players can be and are carried to greatness by their unrestricted 100-man zerg raids.

My intent wasn't to equate "casual" with "bad". I am not trying to be derogative at all when I say "casual". I was simply saying the casual gamer is generally one who doesn't want to play complex or time consuming games. They don't have the time to learn the game, they don't have the time to play the game, or they just want to relax when playing games instead of getting frustrated. There is nothing wrong with any of that.

When you are that type of gamer, that means there are games out there like Dark Souls (and P99 in my estimation), that are simply not for you. While P99 isn't the hardest game out there, it is still VERY time consuming, and it can be VERY frustrating with things like dying, due to the corpse run and experience loss. My point was simply that it is selfish to try and change games that are not for you to match your schedule. Not everyone is a casual gamer, and we shouldn't expect the game industry to make every single game cater to that group of players. Casual gamers these days are honestly really in luck, as most games now are designed to be more inclusive of player types. P99 is not that kind of game, and you should know that before getting into it. It doesn't make P99 bad, or require changing.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is asking two adults to random (without a GM) any different on that count? Two adults can /random to decide a camp just fine without a GM.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] That makes no sense: in the whole scenario we're talking about (monopolies) they are highly incentivized to award the camp to their guildmate: that's the opposite of impartial!

Right, but we have volunteer GMs so instead of making the GM come out (twice, if you read the guidebook) we'd just have people roll without them and settle it "like adults".

No arbiters ... how about the GMs?

They won't have to be brought in 99% of the time, but on the rare occasions when someone acts like a child and doesn't play by the rules, they'd show ... exactly like the current system (only without monopolies).

Finally, at Loramin. I am not sure what you are talking about here at all. You have made many points in this thread that should point you towards the truth as to why this rule exists. You are really bending backwards to try and keep your negative opinion towards the rule. Let me quote you from earlier:

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This. The PnP are largely awesome, and when they're not it's usually because of a limit of our all-volunteer GM team.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if there are three people in line right now the exact same thing can happen. The point is, people will generally follow the rules, whatever they are (random or monopoly), and the staff will only come out in the rare cases when someone isn't following the rules.

But you also have to remember this is super rare: people don't monopolize 99% of the camps on P99.

What you said here is correct. The rules of the server are designed around the GENERAL play of the game. Most camps are not monopolized, and most people follow the rules. Also, the staff is volunteer, which means they CANNOT act the way the paid GMs on live act. They don't have the time, and are not getting paid. This is why they encourage players to solve their own problems in the PnP, before asking for GM help. Who knows when/if a fully volunteer GM has time to help you?

The camp owner is the first arbiter in a dispute, because in general they are the only impartial party who can break a tie/disagreement. For most camps, the people waiting in line are strangers or passing acquaintances to each other. That is why the camp owner will generally be an impartial party. They don't know anyone in line, so they have no real bias towards one person or the other. The GMs ask this of the player base, so they don't need to come out over every little disagreement. You can't ask the people arguing about who is next to impartially come to a decision, as both parties are biased towards themselves being the new camp owner. That is why arbitration exists lol. If players could solve all of their problems themselves, we wouldn't need GMs. That is why your idea of /random being the end all be all is silly. People do disagree about /random, which means you can get into a situation where neither party is willing to compromise.

I am really not sure where you are getting the idea that two people in a dispute can always resolve their issues on their own. Asking "How is asking two adults to random (without a GM) any different on that count? Two adults can /random to decide a camp just fine without a GM." is like asking why we have a Court system in most countries. The answer is simple: when two people disagree on something and are unwilling to compromise, you need an outside party to help solve the dispute. On P99 you have two options for said outside party, another player or a GM. The GMs encourage players to act as arbiters first, so they don't have to come in themselves. It is like the tiered court system in the United States. The GMs are like the high courts, and the players are like the low courts. You take your issue to the low court first, and only move it up the chain when it can't be solved there.

I agree that this rule breaks down on the RARE occasion of a monopoly, as the supposed arbiter becomes biased towards his friends. That is why some camps, like Ring 8 and Scout Roll have special rules. Those are the exceptions to the camp owner being the arbiter rule. Unless the staff decide to add and enforce new exceptions, there is no problem with camp monopolies. As you said yourself, they are pretty rare anyway. No rule set is perfect, there will always be exceptions or ways around it. You cannot claim a rule sucks simply because there are a few rare cases where it breaks down.

[Bardp1999]

Did not read the post above but recommend a break from the game none the less

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 is not that kind of game, and you should know that before getting into it. It doesn't make P99 bad, or require changing.

The argument can be made that P99 itself has nothing to do with friendliness towards the casual player, and the reason why it's "not that kind of game" is strictly because of a subset of players trying to be sweaty tryhards on an emulated server of a 23-year-old game.

If you remove players of that mindset from the game, P99 *could* be casual friendly.

Don't put that blame on P99.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The argument can be made that P99 itself has nothing to do with friendliness towards the casual player, and the reason why it's "not that kind of game" is strictly because of a subset of players trying to be sweaty tryhards on an emulated server of a 23-year-old game.

If you remove players of that mindset from the game, P99 *could* be casual friendly.

Don't put that blame on P99.

No, P99 is not a casual friendly game. Why is this? No instancing. Even if you removed all of the try-hard players tomorrow, it wouldn't change the difficulty of the game for casual players. Spawn timers are still long, loot is rare, and popular camps will be camped during peak hours, which is when casual players generally play. If the majority of casual players play between 6pm-9pm, and most players become casual, then for all intents and purposes popular camps would still be inaccessible to them, as the lines would be too long to get through in just a few hours, unless you get insanely lucky with spawn and drop rates.

Instancing is how games have fixed the try-hard problem, but P99 will never enact instancing. Why? Because that takes P99 much closer to a direct competitor with the TLP servers. While P99 currently has a friendly relationship with the Everquest IP owners, that doesn't mean the Dev's can't piss them off lol.

Finally, most players do not want instancing anyway, and the proof is in P99 being alive for 10+ years.

Originally Posted by Bardp1999 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did not read the post above but recommend a break from the game none the less

Sorry you like having bad information[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Hope this helps. I honestly don't understand why people think they are hurting the other party when they say they haven't read what they wrote. It is just showing everybody you can't be bothered to engage with other people. How can anyone expect you to give a correct response to their post if you don't even read it lol? It reminds me of the kids in middle school who think they are cool because they are getting failing grades. If you can't be bothered to read, why do you bother to post?

[Skarne]

Shamwowi you're the best. I like your posts and guides.

I also appreciate Loramin.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Skarne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shamwowi you're the best. I like your posts and guides.

I also appreciate Loramin.

Thanks! I appreciate Loramin too, he's a good guy.

[Zenren]

I would have to disagree and say this is a casual game. Yes some things take time to complete, but it by no means is necessarily a hardcore game. I know many people, people with family and obligations playing this game, however I know of only about 3% of the players of this game that are controlling 99% of what goes on in the game. Truthfully I think the other 97% doesn't care or just accepts that as the norm, but my argument is that it doesn't have to be the norm. Break the hold, break the mold. Let it be a server for the majority and not the try hard minority.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zenren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would have to disagree and say this is a casual game. Yes some things take time to complete, but it by no means is necessarily a hardcore game. I know many people, people with family and obligations playing this game, however I know of only about 3% of the players of this game that are controlling 99% of what goes on in the game. Truthfully I think the other 97% doesn't care or just accepts that as the norm, but my argument is that it doesn't have to be the norm. Break the hold, break the mold. Let it be a server for the majority and not the try hard minority.

This is not a casual game at all. I am not sure why people believe this. My only guess is that most people who play P99 have played EQ before, so they can lean heavily on past experience. They also really want to play, so they are willing to overcome the hurtles that come with playing the game. Honestly this game is super overwhelming for someone who has never played before. The main reason why people with obligations can play this game somewhat casually is probably because they know this game quite well already, or they were able to play the game a lot before they got said obligations.

What does it take to play a casual mobile game?
1. Download the game onto your phone.
2. Open the game.
3. Press start, and get tons of hand-holding tutorials that teach you how to play the game as you progress.

What does it take to play P99?
1. Buy a super old game disc on Ebay.
2. Install the game.
3. Download and copy/paste the patch into the root directory of the game.
4. Sign up for two different accounts, one on EQEMU and one on P99.
5. Assuming you didn't screw up, start the game and get into the character screen.
6. Try to figure out what the hell is going on with the character screen, as it basically tells you nothing when it comes to classes, races, stats, deities, or starting cities.
7. Get into the game and read your starting note.
8. If you can manage to find your guild leader and give them the starting note, they say something like "welcome young warrior, heres your shit stained tunic!". Aaannnndd then you are on your own lol.
9. Look up tons of guides, maps, etc. to figure out how to play the game.
10. Quit because you are overwhelmed by all of this information you have to learn, with no in-game help, maps, etc. available.

Honestly Dark Souls is a much easier game to play as a casual player, and it is considered to be more of a hardcore game for hardcore players.