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Old 09-23-2021, 08:07 PM
jolanar jolanar is offline
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Default Evidence of Sneak Pulling from old website

One of my favorite past times is stumbling across old websites about EQ that are somehow still up and operating.

I recently found this gem:

https://teir-dal.tripod.com/index.html

What is interesting is the bit they have about sneak pulling:

Quote:
Sneak Pull



Basically, Sneak does two things - depending where you are in relation to the mob. One, automatically sets you to indifferent if in the rear arc of the mob - and two, reduces aggro range if in the forward arc of the mob.

If you come up behind two mobs and fire a bow, or throw at one - only the target will come as long as you keep sneak engaged. It negates him from chain aggroing the second mob. As if the first mob normally says "Come on, there's a guy over here" and the second says "I don't see anything", shrugs and stays where he is.

There are some mobs that work on social aggro that don't need to "see" the player to be aggro'd by the other mob, most of the time sneak pulling won't help in these isolated instances. But there are LOTS of mobs people have told me are linked by social aggro and I couldn't sneak pull just one, yet I have *shrug*

Anyways, most mobs in norrath work on chain aggro - one runs by aggro'd, it aggro's another, BUT Sneak negates this in most instances.

Sneak pulling can be done from in front too, but requires greater range. Throwing will not work from in front....you can be in front of the target, but NOT in front of the additional mobs you don't want to come. Throwing requires you to be too close to be out of aggro range when hide drops, even with sneak engaged. A nice bow with good range works well for this. If you are far enough away, with sneak engaged, you can fire at one, and the other won't come, even if facing you.

The important thing is KEEP SNEAK ENGAGED until the mob is past anything else it can aggro on it's way to you. If you get hit so that sneak is off, or just take it off, then all normal chain aggro comes into effect.

By the way, because of this, sneak pulling casters is trickier. If they hit you with a nuke, sneak comes off, re-engage it quickly and you have a chance still to negate any chain aggro.

In the end, it's all in the placement of the mobs, use angles and line of sight to minimize aggro with the others you don't want. It's not a simple case of "put sneak on, stand in front of two mobs, hit one and the other shouldn't come". There is no substitute for experience, pathing and aggro is different everywhere. Learn exactly how sneak affects/reduces that aggro in different places and then put it to use.

Responses to some questions:

Yes, aggro radius pulling is useful with sneak too. I use this in Karmors basement where the halls are narrow an there is no room for range weapons.

Line of sight helps a lot in these cases. If you get in a position where one can see you but another can't, while having sneak and hide engaged, then you drop hide - but keep sneak on.

Soon as you see one start to aggro and move, back away quickly. As long as you are out of aggro radius of the other by the time it hits you and sneak drops, you only get the one.

Using this, I have been able to keep the basement completely cleared, getting nothing but single pulls for 8 hours. It makes having the "necessary" cleric and chanter unecessary in an area that gives great xp - I've done the whole basement with nothing but 2 rogues and a druid.

As for Hide, it doesn't really affect the chain aggro betwen mobs - Sneak takes care of this. The usefullness of Hide only comes into play if you have to pass other mobs on your way back to the group with your pull.

If you are hidden, you can pass other mobs safely without aggroing even though your pull is aggro and following you.
Is anyone able to use some internet magic to put a date on when this may have been posted? There is another section with the note of "Last Modified April 4, 2001."
Last edited by jolanar; 09-23-2021 at 08:09 PM..
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Old 09-23-2021, 08:34 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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First I checked Google, but ... "teir-dal.tripod.com was first indexed by Google more than 10 years ago" was all it offered. Similarly the Wayback Machine, which would normally be perfect for this, didn't start archiving the site until 2011: https://web.archive.org/web/20110501...dal.tripod.com. No help there ... and of course the sneak pulling page itself has no dates on it, even in the source code.

But, the page does have a link to clear out-of-era content: this page for the Rogue epic "1.0" (2005). If I were Nilbog, my default assumption would be that the sneak pulling page is similarly out-of-era.

AFAIK there's no way to date that specific page, but maybe someone else will have a better idea.
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  #3  
Old 09-25-2021, 10:05 PM
Ravager Ravager is offline
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Man, forget P99, I miss the days when the internet looked like that page.
  #4  
Old 09-25-2021, 10:20 PM
starkind starkind is offline
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I already found rock solid evidence on an even cooler and older site much like that one. And it was talked about like for an entire month in 2 subforuns.

I'm pretty sure sneak pulling will remain nerfed as it's necessary for the p99 raid scene to get their jollies from rooted dragons and /lists.
  #5  
Old 09-25-2021, 11:09 PM
Grumph Grumph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I already found rock solid evidence on an even cooler and older site much like that one. And it was talked about like for an entire month in 2 subforuns.

I'm pretty sure sneak pulling will remain nerfed as it's necessary for the p99 raid scene to get their jollies from rooted dragons and /lists.
69083046-6631-43CD-B131-4EECD68ED236.jpg
  #6  
Old 09-26-2021, 05:16 AM
Deadfather Deadfather is offline
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I remember sneak pull being a thing on blue back in the day and it was awesome for halfling warriors. Why was it nerfed anyway ? What was the evidence saying not classic?
  #7  
Old 09-26-2021, 04:24 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadfather [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I remember sneak pull being a thing on blue back in the day and it was awesome for halfling warriors. Why was it nerfed anyway ? What was the evidence saying not classic?
there was none, just add it to the long list of things devs change with no/weak evidence because they feel like it
  #8  
Old 09-27-2021, 02:52 AM
Master Roshi Master Roshi is offline
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i suspect they nerfed it because it trivialized too much content and allowed for massive farming of highly sought after mobs.
  #9  
Old 09-27-2021, 03:57 AM
Croco Croco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Roshi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
i suspect they nerfed it because it trivialized too much content and allowed for massive farming of highly sought after mobs.
When you make a change that isn't classic because it violates some unwritten feeling about how you think classic EQ was or should be based on zero evidence you've lost all credibility.
  #10  
Old 09-27-2021, 05:08 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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SoulFire nerf felt classic, still does. Epic level equip requirement felt classic, still does. The spirit of classic and the original vision are open to interpretation but it isn't as if McQuaid and company didn't comment on some of this stuff. Lay Hands was specifically kept from being a true complete heal long before the game went from paper to computer screen. The devs didn't want a queue of paladins LHing the main assist, dying, and LHing again. All/All SoulFire was worse. It's a game, an interactive piece of art, not a specimen in formaldehyde. We have custom UIs, GINA, Better Pixels, Wiki guides. Even the original composer, Jay Barbeau, is going back through his songs and breathing new life into them. Does he lose credibility because of the technical limitations back then that hemmed in his creative choices?
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