Worst Group (not raid) Classes?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Keebz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just noticed ranger has a lot of votes, which is wild. Best snap aggro, reasonable DPS, track, harmony, root, snare... pretty amazing honestly.

Very low skill floor though, if you play the class like a rogue without backstab. Speaking of which, in classic rogues are pretty damn terrible. They offer very mediocre DPS and literally nothing else. At least warriors can tank.

Rogues have pretty potentially sweet defensive skills - if they wear decent armour they can tank pretty well and backstab acts like a decent taunt should they lose aggro.

Typically though, rogues don't gear for defence and evade immediately after every backstab, so they don't tend to level up those defence skills. This makes them squishy as hell on the occasions where they do take hits.

I've seen plenty of rogues tank group content just fine. There are a couple of techniques to attempt backstab even when tanking, which is cool.

Speaking of evade - if you are a rogue, my warriors love it when you leave a little pause between backstab and evade - just enough time to attempt to taunt to piggyback off that bs aggro is very much appreciated.

I struggle to place group rogues bottom - they are decent enough dps, easy to play over long sessions (no burn out), can tank in a pinch (in theory), are super useful in 50+ groups for drag'n rez assistance, and a couple of 'key' zones pick lock is useful. They were much better before the sneak nerf though!

Despite my (and others) attempts at dispelling myths about wizards - and how they are excellent in AoE groups - I do have to admit that I find generally wizards are one of the worst classes for a group. Especially as most players don't even play them close to their (admittedly limited) full ability. Great class if you want to play with your friends, but have a young baby in the house. Dump mana, sit and chat, switch to afk often when baby wakes up from naps, needs feeding, nappy change, socialisation, etc. Socially they have a nice roll that lets you stay hooked on EQ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I struggle to place group rogues bottom - they are decent enough dps, easy to play over long sessions (no burn out), can tank in a pinch (in theory), are super useful in 50+ groups for drag'n rez assistance, and a couple of 'key' zones pick lock is useful. They were much better before the sneak nerf though!

For post-kunark, I totally agree. I was mainly talking about in classic era (pre-evade even), where they can't really do anything but auto-attack and their best weapon is 9/31 if they're a twink. As you say, theoretically they could tank or pull, but most rogues won't or simply aren't geared for it. There's also tricks like swapping in SBD to snare, but I don't think I've ever seen that in action in a pug. I suppose drag/rez can still be pretty useful depending on the camp.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did my best to figure out how to be a "good wizard" and contribute as much as I could in a group.

-Bought a Solist's Icy Wand so I could continue to provide mana-less DPS
-Kept my Staff of Temp Flux at the ready to snap aggro adds so I could kite them when possible.
-Kept a stun and dispel memmed for areas with casters in it.
-Saved the "mana dump" for those tense fights when we really needed mobs to die.
-And of course, kept an evac ready.

Wasn't really sure what else I could do, but I never really got into groups to practice much anyhow. But yeah wizard just didn't work out for me in the end. Tried my best but no one wanted one.

The last sentence is the hard part--until folks get to know you, it's a tough life. I'll add a minor and a really important thing to your list above for the prospective grouping wizard:

--It's not just how much damage you do, but when you do it. If your group is snaring (and the wizard brings snare, so it ought to be), you want to blast stuff before it gets into flee mode. Blasting something from 50% to 20% is far more useful to that group than blasting an already-turned opponent who's no threat to anyone as it is. Conversely, if there's no snare (maybe you have something too magic resistant for snare to easily land), blasting the runners is a useful service, especially in that 20-14 percent range where they flee fastest. If you aren't snaring, blasting something from 24 (just before it would flee) to 8 per cent ensures even a runner won't get very far since stuff runs slower as its health drops.

--Here's the important one: Be friendly, be talkative, be active, most of all: Be memorable. You're on a class almost nobody wants and fewer cares about. If you manage to make a name for yourself as a cool guy who everyone likes, you'll get dramatically more group invites than you will if you sit in the back of your groups silently and unnoticed. This applies to all classes, but it's all the more critical on classes that aren't "pick them first" classes for pick-up groups. The cleric might hardly say a word and groups will still fall over themselves to invite him because he's a cleric. A wizard doesn't have that luxury.

Danth

[Jimjam]

^Great advice, just to add to it, as well as being fun, friendly and memorable it helps to have a name which is easy to remember.

[tadkins]

I appreciate the advice. Sadly I'm not charming, or funny, or memorable, and that's what I think made things tough when I tried to level a wizard. I did get to level 53 on him before I quit, without a single group. Even tried a number of guilds that weren't interested in helping me out. All I wanted were some friends so I didn't have to dread group content. It got tiring and boring and I had to make a choice whether I want to port people and quad wyverns my entire life, or try my hand with another class.

My wizard is in Dial a Port now, and I don't really intend to level him anymore. At least he can still serve a purpose making me some money. Which is good because shaman, my new class, is expensive as hell to play. xD

[Danth]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is good because shaman, my new class, is expensive as hell to play. xD

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be THAT expensive 'till 60 if you don't have the means, and even then you can live without Torpor for awhile if need be. Not like you aren't living without it already! In the long run, just about anything in Norrath outside raids becomes your own playground. I know it because it's the duo the wife and I have been using as our primary characters on P99-blue for going on a decade.

Danth

[tadkins]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the plus side, it doesn't have to be THAT expensive 'till 60 if you don't have the means, and even then you can live without Torpor for awhile if need be. Not like you aren't living without it already! In the long run, just about anything in Norrath outside raids becomes your own playground. I know it because it's the duo the wife and I have been using as our primary characters on P99-blue for going on a decade.

Danth

Part of what got me interested in EQ again was that my sister wanted to level with me. She picked SK and we're now the best duo in the game. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
(At least I think so, dunno if SK/shaman or monk/shaman is technically better).

I know how expensive it's going to be but I'm not too worried. This is going to be my main, all that good stuff will be achieved eventually. Torpor, fungi, JBB...it'll happen over time! And it's as you say, there's a lot of possibilites to look forward to as a high level shaman.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by tadkins [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(At least I think so, dunno if SK/shaman or monk/shaman is technically better).

Monks like to toot their own horns, but in my experience both duos do all the same stuff if similarly geared...and I have a lot of experience. I've challenged similarly-equipped monks before to see if they could do anything /w a shaman the wife and I cannot, and since the sneak-pulling nerf, none has. Logically the monk-based duo should level faster, but their ultimate ceiling as duos for a given gear level seems about the same.

Danth

[tadkins]

Is yours and the wife's duo also an SK/shaman? Just wondering.

[Danth]

Yeah, as said, just like yours (except I play the SK and the wife plays the shaman). We've been on those characters a long time and done about everything they can be reasonably asked to do and perhaps a bit more. The monk would have a strong advantage if you wanted to join a high-end raid guild given the P99 raid community's disdain for hybrid types, but that was never an interest of ours.