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Old 11-24-2021, 06:47 PM
Dolalin Dolalin is online now
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Default Many (perhaps all?) Iksar mobs should be immune to charm

I had shelved this for awhile but it just keeps coming up in searches I do relating to charm.

Iksar NPCs seem to have had a broad immunity to charm. I see comments like "iksar NPCs are immune to charm" in many different places.

And it wasn't just guards or merchants, it was lowbie mobs like the Iksar pariahs:

Quote:
ENCHANTERS BEWARE!!
By: Jeremy
Posted @ Thu, Jun 1st 4:31 PM 2000

Actually, anyone that can charm. I have been trying for nearly the whole level, and what I have found is that NO iksar npc's in the Lake can be charmed. I am a 27 bard, and I can't charm Marauders... its sad, but true... so throw that plan out the window =(

---

RE: ENCHANTERS BEWARE!!
By: Anonymous
Posted @ Sun, Nov 19th 2:05 PM 2000

All Iksar NPCs are immune to charm.


https://web.archive.org/web/20020828....shtml?id=3998
From EQ Bards:

Quote:
Thu Jul 20 15:26:56 BST 2000

Another important thing about charming in Kunark is that all iksar mobs are
immune to charm. At least, I've never heard of anyone getting charm to
stick on an iksar.

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...tml/20603.html
Enchanter boards from later on in 2003:

Quote:
EQ has this tendency to treat lizard races as uncharmable occasionally (c.f. Iksar).

https://web.archive.org/web/20040113...hp?p=10973&amp
But the best evidence has to be this post from EsterTheTester which I think is irrefutable:

Quote:

7/17 11:45am - Ester the Tester makes her first appearance on the Song Analysis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. Here is a quote from here regarding Iksar NPCs and charm:

Quote:
Author Topic: Iksar can't be charmed... Bug?
Serreneliss
Station Member posted 07-13-2000 01:16 AM


I have battled the Iksar Exiles (about level 27 npcs) in Warslilks woods and they ALWAYS resist charm. I have also confirmed with other Enchanters of level 50+ that have been completely unable to charm even the lowest level Iksar npcs.
Is this intentional? Or a bug?

If it is intentional, may I humbly request a message other than resist be activated when you attempt to charm the Iksar.

If I had heard:
"Your spell has no effect on this creature"
instead of the basic resist message then I wouldn't have died nearly so many times trying. =)
Quote:
EsterTheTester
Station Member posted 07-13-2000 01:58 PM


Not a bug, feature =)
https://web.archive.org/web/20011109...e/July2000.htm
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Old 11-24-2021, 08:05 PM
Danth Danth is offline
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Was it ever changed later? Can you charm those types of NPCs on eq-live today? If it was changed, when was it changed? P99 staff would need to know if it changed prior to late 2001 for timeline purposes. I didn't play a charm class back then, no personal recollection sadly.

Danth
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:35 AM
realsubtle realsubtle is online now
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So at some point you got pushback when you were making some spurious critique of enchanter mechanics. Then it turned into an insane vendetta that you devote hours upon hours of time to, weaving narratives together from forums hearsay, even putting the cute little note in your bio about 'crushing ur dreamz with facts and logic'. Cool, so its like what, an ego thing? Its what your "personal brand" here is built on? Lame, but ok.

Heres the deal. Project 1999 isn't classic. It's better than classic. It's Classic Ultra Deluxe. Classic is dead. Your fantasy about it being this authentic hardcore experience that needs to be exactly replicated is nonsense.

Even if you somehow managed to replicate the original code and mechanics exactly down to the nitpickiest detail, you would still have an experience that In No Way Resembles Classic. You wanna know how i know? The 'classicism' is wrecked by the optimizations wrought by the meta-conversation about the game. The instantly accessible wikis you can bring up on your smartphone that didnt exist in 2000. Discord calls where you can coordinate instantly and effortlessly. Higher-quality internet connections by far, unimaginably more powerful computing machines. These are all non-classic advantages.

In addition... was the original game perfect? Do the best modern remakes of classic games leave in all of the dumb, confusing, self-contradictory developer decisions with no quality of life improvements? Is it "less hardcore" to play Shin Megami Tensei now because you can choose your demon's abilities instead of wasting hours rolling the RNG in the fusion menu to get the same outcome with no added challenge or skill required?

So let me ask you this. What *meaningful qualitative improvement* to the game comes from arbitrarily treating lizard-brains or guard-brains or merchant-brains as uncharmable? Are people like, cheaply PLing themselves en masse to 60 on the merchants? Are they soloing dungeons with enthralled Iksar bandits? Is there *any good reason to do this at all*? If you can't answer that, or if you have to change the subject back to the laughable fantasy ideal of "perfect accuracy", then I think that you are wasting your time.

Maybe do a little critical thinking about your own work, man, idk. Think about what actual benefit it imbues. Maybe you could research something that wouldn't be a huge, drab, boring waste of everyone's time.

Wow, feels great to say what ive been thinking. How refreshing.
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Old 11-25-2021, 06:38 AM
Dolalin Dolalin is online now
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Another from the Castersrealm forums in 2002:

Quote:
Difficult to do solo:
1. Vessel: Iksar are immune charm.
2. Tangrin: He stuns and nothing that is charmable comes close to his level
3. Hate: Revenants, you need a FD puller to break the revs that actually drop anything
4. Verina Tomb: I believe others have posted that the guards are not charmable and merchants are not so there is not much left.
5. Cazel: Merchants are not charmable and this guy has an insane regen. Fully loaded with Necro and Shaman dots his hp do not drop.
6. Tangrin: Iksar are not charmable and the guards are the only thing in the zone that might be able to stand up to his punishment.
7. Shissar: You have to pull the Shissar out of the temple occupied by a bunch of HTing mobs. A Dire Charmed pet would die quickly followed a bunch of Amy Knights descending upon you

Hmm ... looking back it all seems pretty negative

So, you can pretty much solo the parts that are soloable by everyone

If you do manage to solo one of the above, let us know ... that would be quite interesting!

Regards,

--------------------

Master Zanithar TideBreaker
Phantasmist
Cazic Thule

https://web.archive.org/web/20020429...&f=17&t=000790
I'm going to roll up a heroic enchanter on live today and try charming some iksar. Let's see whether they're still immune.
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:02 AM
Danth Danth is offline
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The post from 2002 is a great find since it's beyond the P1999 timeline. Thanks for the effort, few others would spend the effort doing the research.

Danth
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:33 AM
Dolalin Dolalin is online now
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Well look at that.

I will do some more charming and see what all is resistant.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EQ000010.jpg (97.7 KB, 20 views)
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Old 11-25-2021, 11:06 AM
Dolalin Dolalin is online now
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Bandits, brigands, footpads, and marauders in FoB all immune to charm.

Picaroons in EJ immune to charm.

Treasure hunters in TT immune to charm.

However, 'iksar necromancer' in Sebilis CAN be charmed.

So it wasn't all iksar. It will be a lot of work getting a definitive list. But at a glance it would appear all the outdoor zones Kunark iksar like footpads, marauders etc should be immune to charm at least.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:08 PM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Couldn't charm iksar marauders in LOIO on live today.

Maybe it is just iksar of the rogue clan, guards and merchants which were uncharmable?
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:58 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realsubtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I have zero respect for this project, its goals, or the people behind it who let me play as much free EQ as I want.
[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep up the awesome work classic researchers!
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:24 AM
realsubtle realsubtle is online now
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Disagreement with a decision, a series of decisions, or a set of behaviors and attitudes isn't "disrespect." If you feel that it is, that's certainly your brittle ego talking. I have plenty of respect for the project. I also think that the enchanter nerfing obsession does not contribute meaningfully to the project, nor does the attitude that any disagreement is some kind of high blasphemy.
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