Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[BlownAway]

Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Aftermath DKP page is open for all to view. Here it is, sorted by: adjustment (tracking) DKP. Looks like your claim that the vast majority of our members don't put in time or effort is sadly not backed up by reality, as the vast majority of our members do all contribute a reasonable amount of tracking.

Sitting on a tracking toon that, you did not help place, did not help level, 95 % chance you dont even know the person who made the toon. Even if all 250+ active members helped Track for the ... 160 raids this month. This is still 1 % of the effort any new guild would have to put in to even just attempt to start LEARNING the pulls. How many of these vast majority of effort exerting raiders had ANYTHING AT ALL, to do with the years of infrastructure and guild developing required to now kill stuff in ToV? You are all just riding on the coat tails of years of others work and claiming that you are now putting in effort. It is insane.

Please for love of Tunare stop saying you are competing. There is no competition using someone else system and effort to pull in and kill Dragons with 4-5-6 times the necessary force, or other guild force. It is not competing when you can just stop half way through re pop night and let everything stay up until the next morning knowin that literally it will still be there the next day when u decide to get up at 10 am and slowly form up and then kill them.

Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is nothing stopping Anonymous, or Omni, or Dawn Believers, or any other guild on the server from competing in ToV or the other top tier targets. No guild has an uncatchable advantage. The mage spots are well known, the pull techniques are well known, and there is ample opportunity to practice pulls with flurries or park mages during mini-crawls.

This is even more pathetic and laughable then the last statement. I assume that 95 % of you Aftermath people were in one of these Anon/Omni/DB guilds that had "nothing stopping them" Did you stick it out and devote "time and effort" into helping that guild get to "compete"? Or did you just, stay in that guild until you could loot all available things, and then stop "effort and competition" to just join the shit fuck Zerg for easy mode vs effort? Guilds shouldn't have to "practice" doing things the way the Zerg fuck force does it who has 4 years of OTHER PEOPLES effort cheeze the shit out of said mobs now. Especially when half the people practicing are just going to join the easy team soon as they feel like not doing shit instead of building a new guild.

Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Azure Guard never used to compete in ToV. Around the time of Tempest's demise, they decided they wanted to compete. Surprise surprise, they're putting in the time and now they're being rewarded with mobs they are winning competitively against seasoned Core and Aftermath pull teams.

The only thing stopping you doing the same is that you want the rules changed to suit your personal play style more.

Ask the Azure Guard guys if the Vulak loot they earned would have felt the same if they'd killed it on their rotated week, vs sniping it from the hands of both Aftermath and Core.

Grats AG and PS for after YEARS of having the force, desire, people, guild inter relationship to be able to Clear all of ToV easily, to now here recently finally getting your foot in the door. Like seriously awesome for them. Tho this isnt helping your point of view AT ALL. Sadly just as they are getting there, AM is turning into a Record Zerg with now the majority of there old Competition in there guild. Sadly the current Meta of AM zerging shit with a force equal to all the competitors combined + years of others infrastructure + no effort access to end game loot with little competition , just means the reality of the time/effort/insanity spent to just now "compete" is a HUGE sign of how fucked up it is for any none re rolled for the 6th tie guild to truly get a chance at experiencing everything the game has to offer.

So just Join AM then man ! Come kill dragons in less time then it takes to /who guild and read each persons name! Come compete VS no one 80% of the time besides your fellow guild mates on Dragon Points! Lets all brag about effort and reward even though we did nothing at all to get this guild here besides replace 1 old person with 3 new people from other guilds! We can all denounce the old guild we came from for not trying, as we our selves stop tying for them and take easy street! Be sure to get all the stuff that requires actual interactions and relationships first before you leave tho! Cause over here its just about the Points!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Prostatus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loramin argues with everyone V3.0

Well, it's RnF. RnF has a much higher percentage of top-end guild members, so naturally if you have a discussion here it's going to be dominated by voices who want to keep their unclassic and really not EverQuest at all "competition" and ëxclusivitey" system, whether it's best for the server or not.

And I knew I was going into the lion's den when I started, so I'm not complaining. I'm just mentioning it because I don't want anyone to think the views in this thread reflect the server, when RnF most definitely does not represent the server.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, it's RnF. RnF has a much higher percentage of top-end guild members, so naturally if you have a discussion here it's going to be dominated by voices who want to keep their unclassic and really not EverQuest at all "competition" and ëxclusivitey" system, whether it's best for the server or not.

And I knew I was going into the lion's den when I started, so I'm not complaining. I'm just mentioning it because I don't want anyone to think the views in this thread reflect the server, when RnF most definitely does not represent the server.

There is no Russian conspiracy

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no Russian conspiracy

And if you believe that RnF reflects the general server population I have a bridge to sell you.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And if you believe that RnF reflects the general server population I have a bridge to sell you.

Sorry you don’t get raid

[Heebs13]

How did this thread even become about rotations? This is the most impressive derailing I've ever seen.

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We all know that technical limitations aren't the issue: Rogean and Nilbog will never implement instancing on P99. So again, let's be honest: if you're bringing up instancing you're not seriously proposing it as an option, you're using it to falsely equate it to a viewpoint you disagree with.

All I'm trying to do is have an honest debate here. That means admitting that a lot of our raid circumstances are unavoidable. P99 has higher population than many in-era live servers, a higher concentration of people with the desire/resources to play EQ as a full time job, and most importantly (due to its long lifespan) it has an incredibly unclassic skew towards higher-end characters.

That's the reality we all have to face, so then the question simply becomes, in that environment, what's best for everyone? It's just utilitarianism.

P99 tried having a monopoly guild (TMO) for a long time. No one but TMO liked that. P99 tried having it's current "competition" system (several variations of it in fact), and as we are all aware that amounts to only a few guilds dominating (which is still way more people getting to experience content than under the TMO system). But we've only ever once, and only briefly, tried any kind of structured raiding (the whole class C/R thing), and never a true rotation.

Maybe rotations are the best system for P99, maybe they aren't. All I'm asking is that people honestly defend their views one way or another. Say "____ is the best system for our current top-heavy P99 server" (whose explicit goal is to make classic EQ available for everyone) and make honest arguments to that effect.

Argue that:

• a single guild monopolizing all top content and preventing anyone else from enjoying it is what's best for the server
• a few top-end guilds made up of the absolute most dedicated players monopolizing all top content is what's best for the server
• top content rotated among all guilds capable of killing that content is what's best for the server
• some other system is what's best for the server

But just, do it honestly. Is "scoring forum points" really that much more important than just making honest arguments about what you feel is best for everyone on this server?

Why do I have to argue one of those points? they all suck. I'm completely serious. if you want significant change around here start pushing for instanced raid zones. Ultimately this would have the same effect as rotations, but you could kill dragons once a week instead of once every month and a half. The server is bloated af anyway and anyone dedicated to raiding is eventually going to get their bis items, does it really matter if it happens faster?

Small guilds could get pushed out of a rotation system just as easily as they get pushed out of raid zones. You'd have people lawerying even harder to get guilds taken off the rotation entirely after they wiped a few times or failed to clear the zone on their week. What happens if a guild gets removed from the rotation? When can they reapply? Should any guild that asks be put on or would there be a qualification system where the guild has to prove they deserve a spot? If so, what would the requirements be?

I know rotations sound nice, but it will not be as simple as the staff making a list then forgetting about it.

[Dugface]

Howabout if the respawn timers were reduced?

The issue is that not enough people get to experience the end content often enough. And it's ridiculously contested with people rushing and training each other. Whether you have contested or rotations, 7 day respawn timers are a bit of a drag. Reduce it to perhaps 48 h. Drop 3 day respawns to 24 h. Just make Vindicator an instant respawn.

Sure it's not classic, and the server will be flooded with more loot (like it isn't already after a decade of p99), but people get more of the action they want, you can keep the rush of competing, and it's just more often.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you want significant change around here start pushing for instanced raid zones.

Originally Posted by Dugface [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Howabout if the respawn timers were reduced?

Both these things have been shot down by the staff in the past. Instances are all but guaranteed never to happen here on Project 1999: either Rogean or Nilbog would probably have to have an aneurysm to change their minds. Suggesting them is a poison pill.

Reduced respawn times are possible, but extremely unlikely as the staff has consistently said no for the entire project's history. Even our current beloved "earthquakes" took years of lobbying before the staff finally agreed to implement them, and even then only because they simulated classic server resets.

If we're going to have an honest discussion about the best raid system for P99, it has to exclude the ideas the staff will never implement, and limit it to things that can actually happen here ... like rotations, which the staff literally rolled out a few months ago and (again) were absolutely classic on many live servers.

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they all suck. I'm completely serious.

Right, well I sort of thought it went without saying, but given the constraints on this server (eg. no instances) there will never be a perfect solution that makes everyone happy. So when I say "best for P99", it's sort of implied that I'm saying "option that sucks the least".

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd have people lawerying even harder to get guilds taken off the rotation entirely after they wiped a few times or failed to clear the zone on their week. What happens if a guild gets removed from the rotation? When can they reapply? Should any guild that asks be put on or would there be a qualification system where the guild has to prove they deserve a spot? If so, what would the requirements be?

I know rotations sound nice, but it will not be as simple as the staff making a list then forgetting about it.

So again, I'm not arguing that rotations are magical or will solve all problems, I'm saying they're the best (least sucky) solution for P99. All of your later questions can be answered, but the one that really bugs me is the first one:

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd have people lawerying even harder to get guilds taken off the rotation entirely after they wiped a few times or failed to clear the zone on their week.

So what? People can "lawyer" all they want, but this server is not a democracy, it's a dictatorship. If Rogean implements rotations, part of doing that would be establishing a system to answer your questions, including settling when people leave the rotation.

And if he's smart, he could even setup the system in a way that makes players police each other so the staff has less work to do. For instance, he could make it so that to drop a guild from the rotation a player from another guild has to fraps them failing on gatekeeper mob X twice. Or he could say that whoever gets ToV this week has to send a representative to observe new guild Y that is trying to kill gatekeeper mob X for the first time so they can get into the rotation.

Instead of a system designed to pit everyone against each other, the staff could implement a system where the players have to work with each other (don't send the observer for the new guild's gatekeeper fight? your guild loses its next ToV week). And again, such a system strikes me as massively better for the server and most players (ie. not just the top guilds, and not just the RnF-dwellers).

[Fifield]

Originally Posted by Mead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happened to this guy?



Did he cure the server of cancer?

Good question
Better yet where did flickk and bell ringer run off to?