Rules on Camps that have lists

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Details matter. As you presented the facts, my understanding is that you should have gotten the camp after he explicitly told you that 1) there was a list and 2) that you were next on it.

Even so, the list rules have always been essentially that the person holding the camp can pass it to whomever he wants.

If player A is camping AC and player B shows up here is what should happen:

• Player B asks Player A, "Are you camping AC? Is there a list?"
• Player A tells Player B, "Yes, I am camping AC. There is a list: Me, JimmyJoe, JackyPutz, DumpyNitwitz, then you if you want to be on list."
• JimmyJoe, JackPutz, and DumpyNitwitz might not be real players. They might not be online. They might not be in the zone. They might be alts that Player A has camped out at the camp. (This is cheating, but how would Player B every actually know? -- he won't)
• When JimmyJoe gets the camp when Player A is done, my understanding is that JimmyJoe has no obligation to honor the list Player A originally told Player B.
• JimmyJoe can now start a whole new list if he wants to...pushing Player B back to the end of the list. FUNCTIONALLY, it is possible that Player B (no matter how long he sits there) legit never gets to the front of the line.

I don't like the system. It is very unfair and easily cheated. Every time it has seriously been discussed it seems to come down to that this is how it was enforced in classic EQ. The guiding principal was simply that whoever has the camp can pass it to whomever he wants without regarding to anybody who has been waiting (and might even have been told) that they were on a list.

TLDR: Lists are bull. If you are on a list you only get to the top if the people holding the camp aren't jerks.

AC usually works out because of the nature of the camp (the named always drops the ring, the spot is hard to get to before the next PH has been up for a couple minutes)...but if someone WANTS to be a jerk you are out of luck.

Before you post again, read this:

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

-As per GM Derubael here https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

I have bolded the most pertinent passage here for you.

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by NegaStoat [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it really went down like this, link your screenshots and video to RnF and raise some hell with name and shame. The player, the party members, the GM, all of it.

Pretty sure that's heavily frowned on so I've just posted the actual facts of the incident here, the most important thing being this guide's ruling and how it may lead to camping in bad faith, directly counter to the Play Nice Policy.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Before you post again, read this:

2) The person holding the camp cannot mislead you, or change his mind after telling you who is next. Something that no one ever does (and I will never understand why) is to specifically address the camp holder, asking who is next or if you can be next. The camp holder does need to reveal to you who the next intended camp holder is - if he doesn't, you may ask to be next and your claim will be valid unless he reveals the next person immediately. This person cannot change after the camp holder has "revealed" the next person to take the camp to you. It is an automatic forfeit if this occurs. If you ask to be the next camp holder and are told yes, the camp holder may not later retract or change this agreement and attempt to hand the camp off to someone else - it's yours once he has gotten his item or moved on from the camp.

-As per GM Derubael here https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...19&postcount=9

I have bolded the most pertinent passage here for you.

Nothing in your quote contradicts anything that I wrote. The only exception is that the person holding the camp is not allowed to mislead (virtually impossible to enforce).

Tell me where you see the contradiction so I can clarify where you misunderstood me.

[branamil]

Trying to recruit some friends to play and linked them this thread.

[Slave35]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing in your quote contradicts anything that I wrote. The only exception is that the person holding the camp is not allowed to mislead (virtually impossible to enforce).

Tell me where you see the contradiction so I can clarify where you misunderstood me.

not sure if willfully ignorant or actually insane.

>_>

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Slave35 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not sure if willfully ignorant or actually insane.

>_>

This isn't the RnF forum...if you want to be that way, I'm not interested.

My question was legit and not meant to stir trouble. Nothing in your quote (with the bolding) contradicts anything that I wrote although you seem to think it does. My question was to tell me where you see it.

If you read my post I also said that if the facts as you presented them are true (which is not a foregone conclusion for me, especially since your little insane comment) then you should have gotten the camp according to the rules.

That the GM ruled against you means one of three things 1) either the facts aren't as you described them according to the GM (most likely scenario), 2) the GM made a mistake (GMs are humans), or 3) the rules have changed regarding camps (least likely scenario).

Considering that you haven't posted screenshots/logs of the incident I'm less than inclined to believe your version of the story. Namely: that the player holding the camp actually specifically told you that you were next on the list. If this actually happened then I am actually curious why the GM ruled against you.

The whole point of my post was that a player holding the camp NEVER has to tell you that you are next. He merely needs to respond to you and let you know who is. The person he tells you is possibly real, his alt, a friend off line, and friend camped there, etc...its technically against the rules to do this, but its virtually impossible to police it. THEN, the next person who holds the camp has the right to create his own list...which means you can legit go from being 3rd in line to last in line when the new player takes over and doesn't honor the old list.

This makes the "list" a very corruptible system which can result in players functionally handing the camp over to whoever they want next. You can legit be at the AC camp FOREVER and as long as the person holding the camp never specifically tells you that you are next you will NEVER get the camp by being on the list. This is why lists are sketchy on p99...but they were this way on live too.

[Swish2]

Originally Posted by branamil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trying to recruit some friends to play and linked them this thread.

That reminds me of this time in Family Guy when this happened...

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