Mage pet nerf 100% bot now....

[whydothis]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, we have (unclassic) GCD resets here ... but no, it does not logically follow that because the (again, 10x or more) players on live didn't know about GCD resets, that was the reason they weren't charming.

Occam's razor applies here: it's far more likely that the charm mechanics here are more forgiving than live ... than it is that everyone live was an idiot, or that the only thing stopping them from charming was the lack of the goblin earring.

But you have no proof so stop bringing it up. You keep going on and on and on about this but it's just a bunch of crap until you prove it. People charmed. Just because you didn't do it or see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by whydothis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But you have no proof so stop bringing it up. You keep going on and on and on about this but it's just a bunch of crap until you prove it. People charmed. Just because you didn't do it or see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

My proof is basic logic, the same as with Bard's AoEing 100 mobs. No one could "prove" that classic mobs weren't AoEing 100 mobs all over the place ... but everyone who played on live knew (and could support with basic logic) that they weren't.

Similarly here, if we have variables A (how easy charming is, mechnically) , B (player knowledge of tricks like GCD clickes), C (external factors like crappy internet connections), and D (% of charm class players that charm), where A + B + C = D ... it doesn't add up.

D is massively different here compared to live, so that means one of either A, B, or C, or some combination, must have changed to account for it.

But B and C alone simply can't explain the discrepancy: not knowing about GCD clickies and crappy internet connections alone do not explain why thousands of Druids thought root/rot was a faster way to get to 60. It does not explain why the vast, vast majority of Enchanters (and literally every one I knew on live) leveled in groups, not solo. It doesn't explain D.

So again, basic logic ... and basic knowledge of what live was like ... dictates that A is not the same here as it was on live. And that's to be expected in an emulated game where the original code is lost to time ... but it doesn't mean we shouldn't still strive to improve that emulation, and make it more classic.

P.S. And even if I'm wrong and A wasn't a factor ... even if Nilbog perfectly reproduced every last mechanic related to charm exactly ... if our goal is to re-create classic EverQuest here, and something (just like Bard's AoEing 100 mobs) looks massively unclassic because of B + C factors, we should still fix it ... just as we did with AoEing.

But again, I just don't see how B + C can account for the entire discrepancy.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But again, I just don't see how B + C can account for the entire discrepancy.

And the fix is what? I'm assuming these servers incorporated as much of the original code as they could

Maybe the designers should modify the source code with an artificial charm break roughly every 3-5 minutes and have the game give a message "You have been inflicted by loramin's hazy memories of live" when it occurs so people would understand

[Scalem]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the fix is what? I'm assuming these servers incorporated as much of the original code as they could

Maybe the designers should modify the source code with an artificial charm break roughly every 3-5 minutes and have the game give a message "You have been inflicted by loramin's hazy memories of live" when it occurs so people would understand

Who doesn’t like changes based off of people’s twenty year old memories and what they “feel” is correct?

[rewinder47]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My proof is basic logic, the same as with Bard's AoEing 100 mobs. No one could "prove" that classic mobs weren't AoEing 100 mobs all over the place ... but everyone who played on live knew (and could support with basic logic) that they weren't.

Similarly here, if we have variables A (how easy charming is, mechnically) , B (player knowledge of tricks like GCD clickes), C (external factors like crappy internet connections), and D (% of charm class players that charm), where A + B + C = D ... it doesn't add up.

D is massively different here compared to live, so that means one of either A, B, or C, or some combination, must have changed to account for it.

But B and C alone simply can't explain the discrepancy: not knowing about GCD clickies and crappy internet connections alone do not explain why thousands of Druids thought root/rot was a faster way to get to 60. It does not explain why the vast, vast majority of Enchanters (and literally every one I knew on live) leveled in groups, not solo. It doesn't explain D.

So again, basic logic ... and basic knowledge of what live was like ... dictates that A is not the same here as it was on live. And that's to be expected in an emulated game where the original code is lost to time ... but it doesn't mean we shouldn't still strive to improve that emulation, and make it more classic.

P.S. And even if I'm wrong and A wasn't a factor ... even if Nilbog perfectly reproduced every last mechanic related to charm exactly ... if our goal is to re-create classic EverQuest here, and something (just like Bard's AoEing 100 mobs) looks massively unclassic because of B + C factors, we should still fix it ... just as we did with AoEing.

But again, I just don't see how B + C can account for the entire discrepancy.

In WoW classic, where Blizzard has the exact rules in place that existed in vanilla, people are doing this: https://youtu.be/XT8iVQHVfQo?t=1380

Were mages soloing entire dungeons during the vanilla era? No, nobody was doing that. Now think about how the same amount of scrutiny and optimizing has happened to EQ.

Could the formulas for P99 be different or more lenient than the OG servers? Of course. But you are ignoring a huge part of the equation here. People who played from launch to Luclin had a little over 2.5 years to play and figure things out. There were no videos and the only information available was the item database on Allakhazam and hearsay from other players on forums.

During that time, how many people do you think got enchanters to a high enough level, with enough CHA gear to really give charming a good shot? Keep in mind, this would almost certainly be without GCD reset items, which are a HUGE boost to charming. You can't even re-cast charm after a stun without a GCD reset item. Even on P99, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy charming without those items. I'm willing to bet a lot of enchanters tried out charm when they first got it, found out it sucked (which it still does on P99 when you first get it), and never bothered with it again. Over 2.5 years time, with a lot of those people starting well after launch, and fucking around with alts and just trying to figure everything out, it's no wonder you didn't see everyone charming all the time.

Even simpler stuff people got wrong all the time. How many people during the classic era thought DEX was more important than STR for rogues? How many people thought monks need lots of AGI?

Your argument isn't nearly as strong as you think. The stuff enchanters pull off now with charm is on the same level as the stuff people are doing now in WoW classic.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by rewinder47 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

During that time, how many people do you think got enchanters to a high enough level, with enough CHA gear to really give charming a good shot? Keep in mind, this would almost certainly be without GCD reset items, which are a HUGE boost to charming. You can't even re-cast charm after a stun without a GCD reset item. Even on P99, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy charming without those items. I'm willing to bet a lot of enchanters tried out charm when they first got it, found out it sucked (which it still does on P99 when you first get it), and never bothered with it again. Over 2.5 years time, with a lot of those people starting well after launch, and fucking around with alts and just trying to figure everything out, it's no wonder you didn't see everyone charming all the time.

And again ... what does this have to do with Druids? Druids don't need Cha gear, or -MR gear: why wasn't every Druid in live charming their way to 60?

Option #1: They were all idiots
Option #2: Their internet connections sucked
Option #3: Charming was harder on live, mechanically

[rewinder47]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And again ... what does this have to do with Druids? Druids don't need Cha gear, or -MR gear: why wasn't every Druid in live charming their way to 60?

Option #1: They were all idiots
Option #2: Their internet connections sucked
Option #3: Charming was harder on live, mechanically

I mean, if you want to literally ignore everything I said just because I didn't specifically mention Druids, that's cool. Even though the vast majority of it still applies. I leveled with a Druid to 50 and charm for sure broke more often than it did with my enchanter. He actually stopped using it, and I actually don't see a ton of druids doing it anyway. I've seen more snare kiting and root rotting than charming. People like to act like charming is super easy street, but you have to constantly be attentive when you've got a charmed pet-- you can't just AFK, like at all, or you could end up dead quickly. But keep complaining about it in every single thread I guess.

[Scalem]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And again ... what does this have to do with Druids? Druids don't need Cha gear, or -MR gear: why wasn't every Druid in live charming their way to 60?

Option #1: They were all idiots
Option #2: Their internet connections sucked
Option #3: Charming was harder on live, mechanically

I use to always charm on my Druid if I could because I thought it was super cool to run around with a pet. Do I remember if it broke every minute or was different then here? Not at all it was 20 years ago. All I accurately remember is I did it all the time because I enjoyed it. You and everyone else always advocates for changes based off of old memories and beliefs instead of just enjoying the game and appreciating what you have.

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by rewinder47 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In WoW classic, where Blizzard has the exact rules in place that existed in vanilla, people are doing this: https://youtu.be/XT8iVQHVfQo?t=1380

Were mages soloing entire dungeons during the vanilla era? No, nobody was doing that. Now think about how the same amount of scrutiny and optimizing has happened to EQ.

Could the formulas for P99 be different or more lenient than the OG servers? Of course. But you are ignoring a huge part of the equation here. People who played from launch to Luclin had a little over 2.5 years to play and figure things out. There were no videos and the only information available was the item database on Allakhazam and hearsay from other players on forums.

During that time, how many people do you think got enchanters to a high enough level, with enough CHA gear to really give charming a good shot? Keep in mind, this would almost certainly be without GCD reset items, which are a HUGE boost to charming. You can't even re-cast charm after a stun without a GCD reset item. Even on P99, I'm not sure how much I would enjoy charming without those items. I'm willing to bet a lot of enchanters tried out charm when they first got it, found out it sucked (which it still does on P99 when you first get it), and never bothered with it again. Over 2.5 years time, with a lot of those people starting well after launch, and fucking around with alts and just trying to figure everything out, it's no wonder you didn't see everyone charming all the time.

Even simpler stuff people got wrong all the time. How many people during the classic era thought DEX was more important than STR for rogues? How many people thought monks need lots of AGI?

Your argument isn't nearly as strong as you think. The stuff enchanters pull off now with charm is on the same level as the stuff people are doing now in WoW classic.

Great points. It's tragic that yours and everyone else's are just completely wasted on Loramin. He's hard stuck in his delusions.

[Erati]

on live GCD reset all your gems not just the top

'gasp'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9opZFThy95w

watch his jboots refresh them allllllll