Warrior VS monk/ranger DPS face tanking?

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Duckwalk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find this hard to believe. Maybe I missed something important and OP has the resources to put a mithril 2hnder on a warrior twink at low levels but aside from that..

At 50 the monks fists alone are 14/30. Only slightly worse than 21/40 of the Mith2hnder. Assuming non planar gear/dragon haste does the 10% extra worn haste attached to the Mith2hnder overcome significant higher offense, double attack, dual wield, and flying kick from the monk?

Assuming planar/dragon gear I’d say the monk easily pulls ahead with 16/27 Wu’s fists or even 14/28 Treant Fist and 36% dragon haste.

Those weapons don't and won't exist for a long time. Mith has about 20% better ratio, and 10% better haste than monk fists, but tha't s bit of bullshit compariso alreadysicne you don't start the game at level 50. But the main thing is a DPSing tank is going to have a lot more ability to equip tanking gear tiwh +str while a monk is usually having to choose between str and AC/resists. Like where the monk will have an FBSS the tank can have a TBB, for example.

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those weapons don't and won't exist for a long time. Mith has about 20% better ratio, and 10% better haste than monk fists, but tha't s bit of bullshit compariso alreadysicne you don't start the game at level 50. But the main thing is a DPSing tank is going to have a lot more ability to equip tanking gear tiwh +str while a monk is usually having to choose between str and AC/resists. Like where the monk will have an FBSS the tank can have a TBB, for example.

Right, just like the warrior won't have 8K(?) when they start the game. I guess I'm mistaken regarding the order in which content was introduced. When is Sky available? Assumed it was pretty soon after Hate and Fear which we are already approaching?

Regardless, a fresh group in rags isn't going to be buying their warrior a Mith2hnder anytime soon. A fresh warrior playing with friends will be in bronze and considering himself lucky to have any of the below:

Gnoll Hide Lariat - .15
Bladed Thulian Claws - .26
Langseax - .26
Combine Longsword - .21

By level 20 the naked monk will have .22 fists which turn to .29 at 30. I think you have some misconceptions regarding the gear levels of a new group of fresh players.

[DMN]

Then switch to one of several good 2hd weapons available. silvery two handed axe, Langseax, etc.

[Snaggles]

Well on green didn't they roll back all the 2h changes? Without a damage bonus, especially a scaling one, most 2h while better perhaps than lowbie 1h's are not "good".

It's just theory-crafting but I expect the only way a 2h warrior is going to out-dps a monk at 50 with fists is with a Mithril 2h, Sunderfury or similar high-end weapon. All of those take significantly more work to acquire than doing nothing at all.

Comparing a warrior to say a ranger/sk/pally the Executioner Axe is a nice budget option to dual-Ykesha's or even EBW's. 14/30 fists are pretty hard to beat though especially with the skill caps below:


Warrior skill caps @ 50
1h or 2h - 200
Double attack - 205
Dual wield - 210
Offense - 210
Defense 210
Riposte - 200
Parry - 200
Dodge - 140

Monk skill caps @ 50
H2h - 225
Double attack - 210
Dual wield - 252
Offense - 230
Defense - 230
Riposte - 200
Block - 200
Dodge - 200

Note: I still stand to believe group make-up is more important than skill caps/ dps/mitigation per second. There is even a case for a ranger if you dont have a SOW/snare class, can put harmony to use or need an aggro-tank.
Flame lick ftw.

[Duckwalk]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then switch to one of several good 2hd weapons available. silvery two handed axe, Langseax, etc.

Langseax of the Wolves - .43
Silvery Two Handed Axe - .437

Comparable to what monks get for free at 45 (.41) and worse than 50 (.466). One is extremely faction dependent and the other a 45+ camp in the most isolated dungeon in vanilla.

Also Snaggles is right to point out that this is before the changes to two hand damage bonus tables which massively increased two hand dps. Before the best dps was almost exclusively from 1 handers, at least for classes that could dual wield.

The point being though that its not just as simple as saying "well give the warrior a mith2hnder". Depending on group composition a warrior might be the right choice but will generally require more gear. If they were running with a shaman healer for instance its almost certainly better that an SK or Monk will vastly outperform the warrior in a typical group setting.

[Dogma]

Monk also benefits from the ability that they can drag your friends dead corpses to a safe spot when they all die cuz you picked a sissy monk instead of a mighty warrior.

You only win the race if you can cross the finish line.

[Duckwalk]

This is true. If you'd rather play a mighty warrior constantly beating back hordes of enemies because they lack any means of controlling their pulls, this class is for you !

Everquest, the game that absolutely has a finish line.

[Gatorsmash]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What’s the rest of your team and what are you trying to do? A bard can tank in xp groups even on green.

Hey sorry for the delay, got lost in alts and forgot I posted this.

I went to lvl 15 on the monk then rolled troll warrior. I have a max monk on blue but here in classic I find it incredibly boring. I rolled troll warrior and been having a blast mixing and matching weapons and general warrior stuff.

We haven't had much luck with a static group but somebody is bringing a cleric up to lvl with us - and let me just say holly fuck shamans are great but damn they lag in the heal dept even with slows. Stand totally corrected on that

[Duckwalk]

If you slow everything and keep regen on your tank, you will almost never have to heal which is doable at 24 around I think. At 29 they get greater heal and will be dependent on that until 51 when they finally get superior heal. Which holds them over for the most part until 60 and torpor.

Shaman and enchanters both seem pretty miserable until about 30 then constantly grown in power from there.

Have fun playing the troll warrior. Class is irrelevant if you don't like playing it.

[Dogma]

Slows suck until 50-75%. Better off just canni-dancing and healing.