Legacy items on Green99 - pros and cons

[Neno]

I'm about 90% sure that the guise was the common drop from the Assassin on live. Of all the nameds in Lguk that have Armor/Weapon drops the weapon is the rare and the armor is the common. The exceptions to this are the Savant and the Crusader. The Savant's EBM and Crusader's RF are the commons because they don't have any additional effects or stats. We do know for sure that the Mask of Deception is common after the Guise was removed which would have required them to shift the rarity of the SBD which seems unlikely as all the other proc weapons are rare. The guise prior to its removal was not really that special. The renown that is has was gained after the drop the nerfed.

Why does this matter? When P99 went live the guise was set to rare. When the guise was replaced with mask the mask was also kept at rare for awhile until I bug reported it and it was fixed. In order for green to be a truly classic experience and keep Lguk from being a complete shit show I suggest that the rarity of the guise be reevaluated to the common drop unless evidence claims otherwise. I've looked over the years for posts that talked about its rarity and never really found anything. However, the in game loot for lower guk would suggest that the SBD belongs to the rare cycle of proc weapons and the guise is part of the common cycle of equipment.


edit: Actually, here is an EQ'Lizer page citing that the guise was the common drop. Apparently I just didn't look hard enough before. https://web.archive.org/web/20000410.../lowerguk.html

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You show up with whatever rules you want to cook up. Let's say you force the players to rotate group kills on on a disputed item dropper.They go ok, we will split are party of 6 up into 1s and then the other group obviously does the same. Now you have 12 people going after a mob that spawns once in a half hour with quite a rare drop. But more and more players will be showing up in the interim to demand their spot at the loot troph -- far byond the drop rate of the wanted item. it would be a logistal nightmare and you are certainly going to have Ksers that go "whoops" I thought it was my turn" and other assorted shenanigans.

Here's one simple idea. I imagine others could do better:

Groups of players cannot claim camps over legacy items, only individuals. As soon as an individual acquires a legacy item they must pass the camp to a randomly determined next player (out of those currently waiting for the camp at that moment).

It's short, simple, and prevents lockouts without requiring extra GM oversight, while giving every player an equal and fair chance to acquire legacy items (multiplied by how willing they are to sit and wait at the camp ... ie. it rewards perseverance). Of course people could break the rules and not random, forcing a GM to show up ... but that's no different from people breaking any other rule on the server.

And heck, with a tiny bit of custom coding the legacy drop NPCs could even check all the PCs within a certain distance around them at death, do the random automatically, and announce "Bob now has this camp". It wouldn't be classic, but neither is an all-volunteer CSR staff or FTE messages. Historically P99 has always been willing to go un-classic if necessary to make things work for the staff.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tenderizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A set time after velious has been out the server wipes and resets progression like a leader board. I don't know why people are speculating so much with crazy ideas.

People are "speculating so much" because the staff has never said the server will just wipe. On the contrary, there has been lots of discussion of the server here on the forums in the past where the assumption was that characters would somehow migrate to Blue.

Obviously if that doesn't happen it will take a lot of pressure off those camps on Green ... but A) the staff hasn't confirmed how it will work one way or the other, so until they do speculation is natural, and B) even without Blue transfer, these camps are still going to be extremely popular.

Based on P99's history (see past Fungi Tunic monopolization, not to mention pretty much the entire history of the raid scene) it does not at all seem impossible that some motivated groups of people might lock those camps down, even without a Blue transfer.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's short, simple, and prevents lockouts without requiring extra GM oversight, while giving every player an equal and fair chance to acquire legacy items (multiplied by how willing they are to sit and wait at the camp ... ie. it rewards perseverance). Of course people could break the rules and not random, forcing a GM to show up ... but that's no different from people breaking any other rule on the server

And heck, with a tiny bit of custom coding the legacy drop NPCs could even check all the PCs within a certain distance around them at death, do the random automatically, and announce "Bob now has this camp". It wouldn't be classic, but neither is an all-volunteer CSR staff or FTE messages. Historically P99 has always been willing to go un-classic if necessary to make things work for the staff.

How on earth does that not require extra GM oversight? Have you met many of your fellow players? And what do you mean "individual"? Can a full xp group not camp the room? That's obscene, even though its entirely possible that the camps will be solo socked 24/7 anyway. Who's keeping the list, players? We see how that goes already with OOT AC and these camps would put the pixel frenzy for jboots MQ's to shame.

There's no simple rule that can police this sort of toxic behavior, and any attempt is more likely to end up being worse than simple neckbearding of the spawn. People socking lguk is bad (and inevitable even without guise/MS) but seeing a zone message that its your turn like waiting at the DMV for tags or license is even worse.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by Tenderizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

greens going to be "classic" "progression" (whats all the work for anyways?) A set time after velious has been out the server wipes and resets progression like a leader board. I don't know why people are speculating so much with crazy ideas. Only thing that should be watched for is no lifers staying at a camp and getting multiple bags of manastones or whatever. Get your item and move on. Hate to see people xp at ass/sup just to cock block one of those other 11, feel me? .play nice and enjoy classic eq and if you cant take a reset after a couple years in velious don't bother "wasting" your time on green.

I was never a fan of the wiping idea, but the more these discussions go on I'm starting to think it might be the healthiest thing they could say about it. I have to admit I'd be a little reluctant about that myself, but if it was better for the overall server experience then it would be worth it.

I'd probably end up splitting more time back on blue if that was the case rather than being full on green, but I might be turned off by whatever custom content they are planning for blue too. Not really interested in farming a custom Luclin/LoY/PoP zone or having a modified AA system implemented personally.

[beargryllz]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually, moving characters naked could be a good compromise. This way, the time spent playing Green isn't completely lost as the characters will continue to live on Blue, but without disrupting its economy.

Why not just wipe all the items off blue and let a fresh economy flourish.

That seems like a much, much better idea

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How on earth does that not require extra GM oversight? Have you met many of your fellow players? And what do you mean "individual"? Can a full xp group not camp the room? That's obscene, even though its entirely possible that the camps will be solo socked 24/7 anyway. Who's keeping the list, players? We see how that goes already with OOT AC and these camps would put the pixel frenzy for jboots MQ's to shame.

There's no simple rule that can police this sort of toxic behavior, and any attempt is more likely to end up being worse than simple neckbearding of the spawn. People socking lguk is bad (and inevitable even without guise/MS) but seeing a zone message that its your turn like waiting at the DMV for tags or license is even worse.

"Who's keeping the list, players?" I literally never said anything whatsoever about lists. "What is an individual?" Really, you feel that's a necessary question?

If you want to actual read my post and reply to it I'm happy to have a conversation, but clearly you just came at this with an axe to grind (ie. you came her to say "there's no simple rule that can police this sort of toxic behavior" before you'd ever read anything), and if you did read my post you clearly didn't try to understand it.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They can very well be completely unsure of how to proceed with legacy items and be welcoming a healthy debate.

What server do you play on?

[devblueray]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes.

Red99 doesn't count, because playing Everquest with a total population of 20 inbred drug addict virgins, is not classic.
.

You need at least 100 for it to be classic.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Who's keeping the list, players?" I literally never said anything whatsoever about lists. "What is an individual?" Really, you feel that's a necessary question?

If you want to actual read my post and reply to it I'm happy to have a conversation, but clearly you just came at this with an axe to grind (ie. you came her to say "there's no simple rule that can police this sort of toxic behavior" before you'd ever read anything), and if you did read my post you clearly didn't try to understand it.

If not a list then I suppose the "waiting" players would all need to stay right at or very near the camp location.

Say there are 10 people and just /rand 10. Then go alphabetically.The main "killing" people will have to be grouped so they can see the loot messages.

But what's to stop the first group of players there from just telling the other players who want in that no manastones have been dropping?

Is the killing group going to required to /rand on the items or are they allowed to dictate who gets the drop either by an arbitrary order or perhaps the order they arrived in the group?