[Serious] Lets talk Top raiding guilds and their behavior

[Jorgam]

Originally Posted by dyonak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey Nishoba,

I certainly recognize things got gross as we extricated ourselves from the Hydra alliance. Given the behavior of BHP's former guild leader Kittens had to take action in order to keep raids enjoyable for its members. I don't think that was the wrong decision.

At that time it was very frustrating to be having to leave an alliance where we thoroughly enjoyed 99.99% of the members involved. We made an open offer for anyone that wanted to transition to Kittens and continue raiding with us because we liked you guys. I don't regret doing that but it sounds like I could have done a better job communicating the intent.

I always enjoyed the interactions we've had and am a bit saddened to know I've been this negatively impactful on your experience of the game. Wish you all the best man and apologies for my contributions to the muck at the end of the Hydra alliance.

-Dooce

Hi Dooce,

I can't deny that it all went to shit at the end and things were done that were unpleasant. We had fun, but the culmination of everything that night in officer chat was really bad. I didn't even think you were still playing tbh. As you know Aceart isn't, due to other things he is to blame for.

I wish it didn't go off like that and maybe I'm just letting ghosts of the past cloud my judgement with everything going on.

Hope you take care out there too. Maybe I'll see you around once all of this shit gets sorted out.

[strongNpretty]

Originally Posted by dyonak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey Nishoba,

I certainly recognize things got gross as we extricated ourselves from the Hydra alliance. Given the behavior of BHP's former guild leader Kittens had to take action in order to keep raids enjoyable for its members. I don't think that was the wrong decision.

At that time it was very frustrating to be having to leave an alliance where we thoroughly enjoyed 99.99% of the members involved. We made an open offer for anyone that wanted to transition to Kittens and continue raiding with us because we liked you guys. I don't regret doing that but it sounds like I could have done a better job communicating the intent.

I always enjoyed the interactions we've had and am a bit saddened to know I've been this negatively impactful on your experience of the game. Wish you all the best man and apologies for my contributions to the muck at the end of the Hydra alliance.

-Dooce

The best days of BHP were easily the Kittens/SOTS/Homeland Days. I miss those days so much. Learned a lot from all those folks... After Tpar was banned i got an email from him with some details.. Part of those details was him explaining his ban, and that ALS had stolen BHP/Hydra Alliances bank.... Who got some more details on all this?

To all the folks around during this time.. I miss yall!

[Beldan4]

...Join red. problem solved. No neckbeard. Mobs are NOT on a variable timer.

[JackofSpade]

Originally Posted by Beldan4 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...Join red. problem solved. No neckbeard. Mobs are NOT on a variable timer.

you red players come across as so pathetic, it turns off people who might be on the fence about making a toon there. Y'all sound so desperate and it makes it seem like your server is a boring ghost town that is dying, so you beg in unrelated threads for people to join

[pogs4ever]

Originally Posted by Jorgam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But I do believe there was a valiant attempt to make it right by both FR and AG which was declined by Kittens all around. What went on with that?

So we reached out to AG leadership and we got Octaveous 13 minutes later on his mobile out of game because the AG leadership in game was presumably busy bagging dragons. We had already dragged and rezzed when AG offered to send a cleric.

The issue was we had to clear a *second* round of WToV mobs to get a clear shot again at LTK.

Our next target after LTK was Yelinak (we had officers moving coth bots for a smooth transition).

AG admitted that the train was bad and clearly set us back but downplayed that they set us back like 45+ minutes on a quake with several still very good dragons up. AG killed Yelinak in that time frame so he was no longer available to us.

We wanted the concession of LTK + Yelinak. But AG/F gave a LTK and instead of Yelinak - Gozzrem and Telk. Naturally, we declined it.

[pogs4ever]

Originally Posted by strongNpretty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best days of BHP were easily the Kittens/SOTS/Homeland Days. I miss those days so much.

Same.

[Praxcthius]

so if you get trained according to what you've said then you can request concessions literally on any mob that's still up after a quake. I see. hmm by saying you had to "clear" mobs for ltk again.... get caught up in the now. the meta is to train all of west tov to drop down. git gud. and being butthurt that another guild killed a mob 1,2,3,4 zones away. Kittens it's really deplorable how you embrace victimhood. now on one hand count how many times you've been trained by other guilds. ok. now on the Other hand count how many times you have trained yourself. I'm guessing the latter is by far exponentially greater than the former.

[strongNpretty]

Originally Posted by JackofSpade [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you red players come across as so pathetic, it turns off people who might be on the fence about making a toon there. Y'all sound so desperate and it makes it seem like your server is a boring ghost town that is dying, so you beg in unrelated threads for people to join

Relax man.

[Toomuch]

Originally Posted by pogs4ever [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So we reached out to AG leadership and we got Octaveous 13 minutes later on his mobile out of game because the AG leadership in game was presumably busy bagging dragons. We had already dragged and rezzed when AG offered to send a cleric.

The issue was we had to clear a *second* round of WToV mobs to get a clear shot again at LTK.

Our next target after LTK was Yelinak (we had officers moving coth bots for a smooth transition).

AG admitted that the train was bad and clearly set us back but downplayed that they set us back like 45+ minutes on a quake with several still very good dragons up. AG killed Yelinak in that time frame so he was no longer available to us.

We wanted the concession of LTK + Yelinak. But AG/F gave a LTK and instead of Yelinak - Gozzrem and Telk. Naturally, we declined it.

I'm not wanting to get all super-angsty here, but what you said here is very interesting, and feel it merits a level-headed response. Before I get to that though, yes it sucks you got trained, and it sucks even more that we (AG) took a while to get back to you about it. Poor form, on our part, hence going above and beyond in trying to make things right.

However, you're literally saying you wanted to set a new precedent/raid-rule on the fly, one based on missed opportunity.

All raiding guilds have been trained and wiped by other guilds before, but it has never been the policy or agreed-upon precedent to concede OTHER mobs, when an infraction occurs. Requiring this would be extremely murky waters.

For example, you're saying that if it quakes, and Riot trains AG on Dozekar, that Riot then needs to concede... what mob(s) exactly? AG can pick the target(s) that they'd like Riot to concede, in addition to Dozekar? Seeing as AG is capable of moving on to any other major target next, would Riot have to concede all of ToV? Doze + any other Velious target of AG's choosing?

That's just not how it has ever worked before in the raiding scene. The precedent has been set & agreed upon as conceding that mob that you got trained on/at.

AG actually went well above the precedent, *genuinely* trying to make things right, and conceded 3 different targets, not just the one required. This was turned down/scorned, as you stated.

By all means, a new precedent based on "opportunity lost" can indeed be discussed in the UN channel, but again, things like that can't be requested/demanded on the fly, Ultimately it's really murky waters though, and seems really lawyer-questy to me, which is something we're currently putting a lot of effort into trying to move away from, not toward.

[Duckwalk]

In a vacuum that makes sense however in reality this was more of a straw that broke the camel‘s back type situation. Prior trains and prior concessions, in some cases left unfulfilled, plus multiple pieces of evidence pointing to a direct and malicious intent on incubo’s behalf, and incontrovertible proof of wrong doing led to a desire to get a firm ruling and/or punishment.

Take that for what you will.