New App: Log-reader-map-tracker

[myriverse]

Just because the ingame map was removed doesn't make its functionality illegal. It was just removed. And ANY and ALL 3rd party log readers are legal as long as they do not alter the function of the game or automate things, as stated by the entirety of the staff.

[Gonzo Joe]

So I type /loc and look over at Muse's map on the wiki which I have opened on my second monitor to reference my position on the grid = Okay and legal.

I type /loc and a software application does the reference for me by parsing the loc data from my log and puts a pointer on the map, which is still open on my second monitor = Illegal.

The difference between legal and illegal is that I'm using a simple software program to do some mental gruntwork for me? Goddammed Luddites....

[Mirana]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If turning on in-game maps is illegal on P99, then using a software that does same thing via 3rd party tools can also be classified as illegal.

Wrong. That is simply YOUR INTERPRETATION of a situation. Using 3rd party tools to do things that are normally not possible within the game, when within the server rules is completely legal. It's legal because the devs said it is legal, and because it does not break any rules regarding the use of /log.

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By analogy, if guns are illegal, and spoons are legal, if you would have used a spoon to kill a person, a defense on a grounds "spoons are legal hence I am not guilty", would not be found plausible. You possession of a spoon is legal, your usage of it is not.

Obviously it's illegal to murder someone with a spoon, because murder is illegal.

[Dragonsblood1987]

Part of the fun is running into a zone and not knowing where anything is. it forces you to explore and adventure, at least to some degree. No maps!

[myriverse]

Even explorers and adventurers use maps. The smart ones, at least.

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is subjective, cause its a software that circumvents intentionally turned off in-game maps. If turning on in-game maps is illegal on P99, then using a software that does same thing via 3rd party tools can also be classified as illegal.
Log reader by itself is legal, what it does with the data it obtains is subject to interpretations.

By analogy, if guns are illegal, and spoons are legal, if you would have used a spoon to kill a person, a defense on a grounds "spoons are legal hence I am not guilty", would not be found plausible. You possession of a spoon is legal, your usage of it is not.

Turning on in game maps is not illegal, just like spell sets aren't illegal. They were just UI features that have been disabled.

Did you know that this server actually had maps for a while? And guess what....I still had fun! Crazy huh?

[Kika Maslyaka]

Champion_Standing and Mirana

I understand your logic and interpretation of the situation.
The point I am trying to make is:

-If this new software is GM approved, then turning off in-game maps becomes a moot point, since this software not only duplicates its function, but actually enhances it.

Which leads to 2 possible situations:

a) GM allow in-game maps back, going against their previous decision based on the fact that's maps were not classic

OR

b) GM still disallow in-game maps, while letting even more powerful map system to operate, which leads to rather amusing stance of "In game maps are not classic so you can't use them, but using 3rd party tools that do exactly same thing is ok"

To show you why this situation is awkward from logical point of view, consider this analogy:

-During Great Depression US Government forbid sale and production of Alcohol. Now imagine a situation where government only forbid production and sale of alcohol by organizations, but not individuals: so it would be illegal to buy alcohol in a store, but its ok to brew it at home and consume in any amount.

[Grimfan]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Champion_Standing and Mirana

I understand your logic and interpretation of the situation.
The point I am trying to make is:

-If this new software is GM approved, then turning off in-game maps becomes a moot point, since this software not only duplicates its function, but actually enhances it.

Which leads to 2 possible situations:

a) GM allow in-game maps back, going against their previous decision based on the fact that's maps were not classic

OR

b) GM still disallow in-game maps, while letting even more powerful map system to operate, which leads to rather amusing stance of "In game maps are not classic so you can't use them, but using 3rd party tools that do exactly same thing is ok"

To show you why this situation is awkward from logical point of view, consider this analogy:

-During Great Depression US Government forbid sale and production of Alcohol. Now imagine a situation where government only forbid production and sale of alcohol by organizations, but not individuals: so it would be illegal to buy alcohol in a store, but its ok to brew it at home and consume in any amount.

What about the out of game mapping program makes you feel it's more powerful than an in-game map? If you do not mind me asking.

Just so you know, people did make and still do make moonshine, and it's still illegal, you cannot stop people from producing alcohol. The difference here is that they did try to stop them. But honestly this analogy has nothing to do with a mapping program on an EverQuest server and I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

If you feel that this technology wasn't possible back in 1999/2000 then I'd like you to look at some early versions of showEQ, which was essentially a similar style of program but it was able to read a lot more and show you mob positioning, loot, etc. This was back before there were in-game maps, and it just used an out of game map to give you the positions. This technology was available (in a more powerful form) and so it's not really that big of a deal that it exists IMO, especially since all this program will do is show you where you are on a map.

[happyhappy]

Originally Posted by Grimfan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you feel that this technology wasn't possible back in 1999/2000 then I'd like you to look at some early versions of showEQ, which was essentially a similar style of program but it was able to read a lot more and show you mob positioning, loot, etc. This was back before there were in-game maps, and it just used an out of game map to give you the positions. This technology was available (in a more powerful form) and so it's not really that big of a deal that it exists IMO, especially since all this program will do is show you where you are on a map.

And using SEQ will get you banned on P99.

[Nocte]

I don't understand how people think this is classic. I am impressed with the idea, but classic mapping was a binder full of printouts because the EQ client didn't allow alt-tabbing until after Velious (maybe Luclin?).