Is a "No Lock-Down" Rule Possible?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would argue that locking down camps isn't classic: I never even heard of such a thing on live during Velious (or even for awhile after). After all, people in classic didn't know that mana orbs, guises, holgresh elder beads, etc. were going away, so no one had any reason to lock them down for an extended period of time. Plus, I feel like (based on everything else they did) GMs on live would have gotten involved if someone was preventing everyone else on a server from accessing (non-raid) content for weeks or months at a time.

But as for enforcement, that was exactly the problem I ran into, and so I was hoping that someone with higher Intelligence than this dumb Barbarian might see a solution.

I mean it's not so much the behavior I was saying is classic, but admin trying to thwart such ingame activities, such as people camping items for too long. This is not classic.

I think perhaps you suffer a little from Rosy-Tinted-Glasses Syndrome when you reflect on the past and Everquest as many of us do.

I am pretty sure even back then when Velious was fresh, there were nerds capable of camping items for extreme periods of time and passing camps only to their friends.

The only way you avoid this is... Instances. And, THAT'S NOT CLASSIC either.

[NextToTheGods]

You can make mechanics and content classic, you can't make the player population classic, it's as simple as that.

It's also obvious, at least to me, that the staff are in the corner that wants to work for a server that replicates classic mechanics and content, not to right the wrongs of classic EQ or to make the population act as the population on live classic servers did (I don't regard pbaoe target cap nerf to have been implemented for this reason), and those who want/expect that are going to be sorely disappointed.

I haven't spent a minute on any of p99 blues major pre nerf item camps:
Manastone, Guise, Locket of Escape, Necklace of Superiority, Holgresh Elder Beads, Fungi Staff) but what I've heard is that they all were all messy clusterfucks on permanent lock down and I expect it to be even worse on green but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by NextToTheGods [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I haven't spent a minute on any of p99 blues major pre nerf item camps:
Manastone, Guise, Locket of Escape, Necklace of Superiority, Holgresh Elder Beads, Fungi Staff) but what I've heard is that they all were all messy clusterfucks on permanent lock down and I expect it to be even worse on green but I would be glad to be proven wrong.

I am the same. ^

The only camp I have ever sat at for hours was Jboots, and that almost always had a "list" in OOT or Sro when it had a set spawn there. I did that when I first started my druid ages ago, which was before velious but after manastones etc.

I also happened to take a break from p99 before Velious was released, so I missed out on holgresh beads too.

I missed all the good rare item camps! Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing now.

[Thugnuts]

Originally Posted by Canelek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, it will be a clusterfuck as long as some people can RMT them. And even without RMT activity, some folks view in-game currency and accomplishment as real life achievement, as sad as that is.

Careful, I got banned for saying this last month.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Not classic. NEXT!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by indiscriminate_hater [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic. NEXT!

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean it's not so much the behavior I was saying is classic, but admin trying to thwart such ingame activities, such as people camping items for too long. This is not classic.

I think perhaps you suffer a little from Rosy-Tinted-Glasses Syndrome when you reflect on the past and Everquest as many of us do.

True, but it's also possible to play here so long you forget what "classic" was actually like. Luckily I found this wonderful link to remind me (which I recommend checking out if only for the nostalgia): Kunark Era GM Guide.

Originally Posted by Kunark Era GM Guide

Disruption - monopolizing most or all of the kills in an area rather than stealing from a specific player or group of players, ... refusing to cooperate with the other parties at a contested spawn site after having been instructed to do so by a CS Representative

Now of course, GMs on live Everquest were anything but uniform, and I'm sure interpretations of that clause (one of like five million, if you follow the link) varied greatly across servers. And even that clause doesn't specifically address players locking down a camp for weeks at a time (most likely because it wasn't even an issue back then).

But at the same time, EQ live was a paid product, and the last thing Verant wanted was isolated bad players ruining the fun for other (paying) customers. If you read the guidelines I linked that much is pretty clear.

Classic staff absolutely interceded in player issues, so it's not unreasonable to think that the staff here (especially when the whole server supports it) might do the same ... if there's a viable way for them to do so. That viable part is tricky though, because P99's all-volunteer team obviously has far less resources/staff than the live team did.

[Kesselring]

If green ever happens, there should be lines for certain camps. Youre next in line when the person(s) leave, you get the camp. Not their friends. This should be the same with everything. If you're physically at Ancient Cyclops camp waiting in line and nobody else is... you're next in line period. Not some arbitrary list. Nobody in a sane mind would argue with this logic. People are putting in time to WAIT for something they should have the next go at it. When the GM's go to look at who was there longer in zone, that's all that should matter during camp disputes. You don't get to pass off camps to people you want if there's people actively waiting right there. That's how it was on live, hell we had a line for scout back in the day too. There was a literal calendar full of player names on our servers forums for scout. Yes that isn't sitting there physically but we all agreed that waiting 10 hours per spawn physically was a bit much.

It's simple, nobody waiting in line for your camp? You give it to whomever the fuck you want.

[Illsiff]

Start a publicly visible list:

1) Create a Discord server.
2) Name it p99 poopsocking.
3) List all the poopsocking camps as channels. (These are easily searchable with ctrl + k.)
4) Make it publicly accessible to anyone who joins.
5) Create a few rules for etiquette, but keep it simple
6) Pray for cooperation
7) Pixelquest

I don't see it really working any other way.

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Illsiff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Start a publicly visible list:

1) Create a Discord server.
2) Name it p99 poopsocking.
3) List all the poopsocking camps as channels. (These are easily searchable with ctrl + k.)
4) Make it publicly accessible to anyone who joins.
5) Create a few rules for etiquette, but keep it simple
6) Pray for cooperation
7) Pixelquest

I don't see it really working any other way.

I like this idea.

[Mead]

Originally Posted by Triiz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I get the idea, but I don't see how it could realistically be implemented without a GM at X item camp 24 hours a day 7 days a week which obviously wont happen.

Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but from a casual standpoint I imagine camping a Manastone on a new server to be a pipe dream for 95% of the server. People always talk about how bad camping AC is 7+ years into the server, I imagine Manastone/Guise would be that multiplied by at least 100.

I mostly play EST mornings, I never really get to play during the server "prime time", there is usually ~500 people on when I log in but it wouldn't even take 100 people to keep every valuable classic item perma-camped.

If you don't play p99 80+ hours a week you are at a huge disadvantage, that's just the reality of classic eq. Poopsockers gonna poop sock.

If anything you're realistic.

Originally Posted by Lhancelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I finally get to write it first!!!! Sorry Loramin...

THAT'S NOT CLASSIC!

Honestly though, I see no way they could enforce such a rule. They already have guide time monopolized by trying to monitor raids, how could they even begin to start trying to watch specific camps in the game?

All this would do is create constant petitions for every camp on the server. They would have petitions sent in complaining about that loser lvl 50 necro that farms orc1 and orc2 daily every morning for 4 hours, etc.

The petitions would never end.

Originally Posted by Kesselring [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If green ever happens, there should be lines for certain camps. Youre next in line when the person(s) leave, you get the camp. Not their friends. This should be the same with everything. If you're physically at Ancient Cyclops camp waiting in line and nobody else is... you're next in line period. Not some arbitrary list. Nobody in a sane mind would argue with this logic. People are putting in time to WAIT for something they should have the next go at it. When the GM's go to look at who was there longer in zone, that's all that should matter during camp disputes. You don't get to pass off camps to people you want if there's people actively waiting right there. That's how it was on live, hell we had a line for scout back in the day too. There was a literal calendar full of player names on our servers forums for scout. Yes that isn't sitting there physically but we all agreed that waiting 10 hours per spawn physically was a bit much.

It's simple, nobody waiting in line for your camp? You give it to whomever the fuck you want.

One of the biggest issues with this type of rule implementation is the stress placed on the GMs. They're already stretched thin with the raid scene and the million rules that require a p99 licensed attorney. The last thing you want to do is add more rules to this place when they're having a hard enough time enforcing or probably even understanding the current rules themselves.

Unfortunately, obtaining things like manastone, guise, and fungi staff has rarely been attainable for the casual player. That's part of what makes this game the way it is. Be prepared for that to not change.