Question about camp rules

[jimmypoopins]

I had a couple of situations come up recently, and I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on them.

1. I was camping SS at droga, mostly farming faction but hoping for drops. I was there for about 3 hours, when I accidentally went a bit too far out farming faction and came back a couple of minutes late to SS. In that amount of time, someone was sitting where SS pops with a dead PH at his feet. There wasn't a call for cc or anything (I'm assuming he was camped there and logged on).

I explained what happened but he made a big deal about how I was gone for too long and even had an officer from his guild sending me tells. As far as I can tell, according to the nice play policy, it was still mine, but what was written there could have been interpreted in a few different ways so I'm not 100% sure. I ended up petitioning since he wouldn't move, and I was pretty certain that it was still mine, but never heard back.

2. Again in droga, this time at chief/bg, I got into trouble and feigned and /q'd. Again I had been here for a few hours. I came back and a few minutes after someone pulled a bodyguard while I was around in the safe corner. Unfortunately it had good loot on it (most likely a CoS which is worth like 2-3k), and I told him it was mine, but he said I went LD and that the camp wasn't mine anymore.

Now in either of these cases, even if there was some technicality in the rules where the camps weren't supposed to be mine, I feel like from a moral standpoint they shouldn't have been taken. I know if I was on the opposite end I would have just given the camp back, but that's me, so I don't know. They were very rude in both cases, so it frustrated me a bit and I wanted to see if people thought, whether it be on a rules standpoint or personal opinion standpoint, if they should have backed off.

[katrik]

I'm pretty sure if you die/feign/LD for any reason, you forfeit the camp. I could be wrong though. You have to make your presence known, or people will take shit all the time.

[Derubael]

1) In this situation, you should have still held the camp, depending on how long the placeholder was up. Essentially, the person who took your camp needs to message you and let you know he is interested in contesting the camp, at which point you would need to then stay at or near the spawn in order to hold it. Until that happens you are free to roam the zone as long as you keep the placeholders clear.

That being said, if the placeholder was up for an inordinate amount of time, then he would be justified in taking the camp. Keep in mind there is no "camp timer" to determine how long a PH can be up before a camp can be taken. A handful of minutes should be the max (you need to be actively keeping placeholders clear if you're going to claim a camp... set an egg timer or something to remind you when the spawn is coming). We want to be as flexible as possible with the camp-holders themselves, while at the same time being reasonable about what constitutes a "held" spawn. You can't have a placeholder up for 10 minutes yet claim to be holding the camp.

For people wishing to move into a camp, be aware of whether or not the placeholders are up. If you move into a camp and see the placeholders down, it's up to you to ask around and find out who's camping it if you don't see them right away. When the PH spawns it's bad form to immediately engage, and potentially a violation of the camp rules. Let it stay up for a handful of minutes to see if anyone comes and engages. If they don't, the camp would be yours as per the above paragraph. If they do, you need to communicate to them that you are interested in the camp. If you do not clearly communicate you wish to contest the camp, you can't move in if the person walks away after killing the placeholder.

Essentially, the camp rules boils down to this:

A camp is yours regardless of where you are in the zone as long as you keep the placeholders clear, until someone wishes to contest the camp, at which point you must stay at or very near the spawn from that point forward.

As always, if you are camping two spawns and someone wises to take one, you must pick one and give up the other(s). In cases where you are holding more than two spawns and another party wishes to contest two or more spawns, you may pick the one you want most and then split the remaining camps in the best way possible (IE, for multiple spawns - say, a 4 spawn of goblins, each party would take 2. For single spawns, alternate kills - you take one, opposing party takes one, and so on).

2) In this situation you were indeed in the wrong. Once you leave a zone, die, or log out of the camp (/quit) you have forfeited the camp automatically. You must then work to re-claim your camp as per the camp rules outlined in 1).

This may seem slightly complicated, but it's infinitely better than the system we had before. The fact that I can reduce it to 1 sentence is a testament to it's simplicity. It's also incredibly effective and promotes a much more common sense approach to camps and camp disputes in general. Also keep in mind that the "player mediated dispute" feature that is present in the raid scene is also present in every player-level dispute imaginable. We greatly encourage players to work out disputes on their own if possible before /petitioning for a CSR. A player chosen solution is going to be much better than any a CSR will hand down, simply on the merit that it was player mediated.

Hope this clears some things up. Feel free to quote this post/point people to this post in the future to clarify the camp rules.