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  #11  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:42 PM
Baler Baler is offline
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Thread number 10431,.. Ogres dummies try to argue that troll is inferior

troll regen + regrowth + fungi all STACK, YES THEY ALL STACK

Troll > Ogre

fuck sakes folks there are thread and thread and threads of proof why troll is the king shm race.

Stop grinding ur hammers on the keryboard, it's the only 1 ya got.
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:42 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
1. Regrowth I assume stacks with turpor? if thats the case then it would further dilute a Trolls regen
Yes it stacks, and yes it's useful when health/mana regen is critical. But Torpor/Cann is just a way of life as a 60 Shaman, and that produces so much mana that I often don't even bother Regrowth-ing myself.

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Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Forgive me since I am not big game shaman, but does tupor act as a CH at level 60? not sure how many HP shaman are rolling with these days.
No, but it comes pretty close: maybe 60-80%-ish, depending on gear/buffs?

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Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Even even with torpor running unless you are hitting full health, regen is still basically adding health and therefore mana. ...
Yes regen ... whether from Regrowth, from being a Troll, from Fungi Tunics, or even from FT items (eg. Shawl) are all still good even once you have Torpor. Torpor doesn't magically make any of that bad. It's just that Torpor is so good, all those other things pale in comparison, and when you have the Torpor/Cann cycle going anything optional (like wearing a Fungi or casting Regrowth) is often just not worth the trouble.


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2. Turpor removes haste? if yes then you would have to recast it if you were doing some mele carnage.
Melee damage is a tiny drop in the bucket for 60 Shaman. Our DoTs (including our best one, our pet) do way, way more, and what little melee damage we do while soloing tends to be in-between casting ... so haste doesn't matter.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:45 PM
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And just in case y'all didn't hear it the first time. Once a shaman get's torpor race doesn't matter.

I have a barbarian shaman also.

ps. sorry loramin getting my (another) +1 post count for the day, no disrespect sir.
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  #14  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:48 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Once a shaman get's torpor race doesn't matter.
This is the correct takeaway. Not being a Barbarian is by far the thing you will notice most out of any Shaman race IMHO, simply because it limits where you can buy/sell/bank so severely (and you'll likely notice the comparative XP bonus also). Next would be not being a Troll/Iksar, because you will notice that lack of regen leveling up ... but then at 45+ an Iksar likely will miss the JBB.

And then finally after months, if not years of playing your character, you finally reach 60 and manage to acquire 60 ... and technically, on paper, if we're all being fair, Ogre becomes the best ... but it's by a tiny margin and really, again:

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Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
race doesn't matter.
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ps. sorry loramin getting my (another) +1 post count for the day, no disrespect sir.
None taken (I quoted you after all [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])
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Last edited by loramin; 06-12-2020 at 08:51 PM..
  #15  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:53 PM
Baler Baler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
acquire 60 ... and technically, on paper, if we're all being fair, Ogre becomes the best
Bull fuckin shit

Troll is the best shaman race

Stuns DOES NOT EQUAL INTTERUPT

Ogres can be interrupted the same as trolls

Trolls however get racial regen FOREVER

TROLL > OGRE
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  #16  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:54 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Bull fuckin shit

Troll is the best shaman race

Stuns DOES NOT EQUAL INTTERUPT

Ogres can be interrupted the same as trolls

Trolls however get racial regen FOREVER
We'll have to agree to disagree (over the tiniest of differences: whether FSI or Troll regen is better at 60, when both barely matter) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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  #17  
Old 06-12-2020, 09:03 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Frontal stun doesn't stop interrupts. It stops Stuns.
This is a bit of misunderstanding of the mechanics. There are two components to bash when it comes to spell interruption. The first component is the stun itself. The stun automatically stops any spell from casting, and prevents you from doing additional actions until the stun is over. This is why a bash will ALWAYS interrupt a non-ogre's spells. The spell never gets to finish casting. It is not actually being "interrupted", from a channeling perspective.

The second component is the spell interruption component. The second component does NOT trigger 100% of the time. This is why Frontal Stun Immunity is good. Not only are you able to finish casting the current spell, due to the Stun not triggering, but you have a chance to have your spell successfully finish casting without being interrupted. I have seen this firsthand on my Ogre. I am able to finish casting a spell even though I was bashed.


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Originally Posted by sonofbaal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Forgive me since I am not big game shaman, but does tupor act as a CH at level 60? not sure how many HP shaman are rolling with these days.
Torpor Heals 300 HP per tick, for 4-5 ticks. This is depending on the server tick, when the spell was cast. This means you are gaining 1200-1500 HP, while spending 200 mana. This means each Torpor will net you 400-550 mana, after you factor in the casting cost. So the math is simple: You are gaining 400-550 mana per 24-30 seconds. If you have an HP pool of 3000, and a mana pool of 3000, you will get back to full mana in roughly 4 minutes. It will take you another minute to get back your HP. So at WORST, you will be back at 100% mana and 100% HP in 5 minutes.

This is why extra Troll regeneration isn't that great. 8 additional HP regeneration equals 4800 HP per hour, or FOUR free Torpors. This means Trolls save a whopping two minutes on Torpors per hour. Not very useful overall. Torpor will always be able to quickly restore your HP and Mana bar.
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Old 06-12-2020, 09:12 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Torpor Heals 300 HP per tick, for 4-5 ticks. This is depending on the server tick, when the spell was cast. This means you are gaining 1200-1500 HP, while spending 200 mana. This means each Torpor will net you 400-550 mana, after you factor in the casting cost. So the math is simple: You are gaining 400-550 mana per 24-30 seconds. If you have an HP pool of 3000, and a mana pool of 3000, you will get back to full mana in roughly 4 minutes. It will take you another minute to get back your HP. So at WORST, you will be back at 100% mana and 100% HP in 5 minutes.

This is why extra Troll regeneration isn't that great. 8 additional HP regeneration equals 4800 HP per hour, or FOUR free Torpors. This means Trolls save a whopping two minutes on Torpors per hour. Not very useful overall. Torpor will always be able to quickly restore your HP and Mana bar.
A couple things to add. First, no one mentions how tedious all this is. Like, yes you can Torpor/Cann back from 0 mana to full in a few minutes ... but that's a few minutes of pressing Cann and your insta-click refresher over, and over, and over again (with intermittent Torpor casts). As powerful as it is, don't think it's glamorous (my kingdom for Cann V [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

And second, one other thing about "Trolls save a whopping two minutes on Torpors per hour". Look, if you told me I could save two minutes an hour while XPing I'd be tripping over myself to buy whatever you're selling. But at 60 you don't grind, you farm, and whether that's in a group or solo it's not about optimum efficiency, it's just about having enough to get the job done.
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  #19  
Old 06-12-2020, 10:33 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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loramin did you respond to this but delete it cause I deleted it? LOL. Sorry. I wanted to refresh my memory on ticks to not waste someone else's time but still found no resolution to the quandry.

Anyway the post:

Where are people getting this 4-5 torpor ticks from? I know i see it on the wiki, but that's not how it should work. Either it should wait for the first tick, and then give you all the ticks eventually or if p99 is simply using seconds duration for the spell and then only giving health on spell duration which overlap with the server ticks, then you'd never get 5 ticks either as you'd have to land the spell the exact moment a tick was happening just to get 4 ticks(which would mean you'd virtually never get 4 ticks either).

So how is this 5 ticks allegedly happening on p99?
  #20  
Old 06-12-2020, 11:27 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
A couple things to add. First, no one mentions how tedious all this is. Like, yes you can Torpor/Cann back from 0 mana to full in a few minutes ... but that's a few minutes of pressing Cann and your insta-click refresher over, and over, and over again (with intermittent Torpor casts). As powerful as it is, don't think it's glamorous (my kingdom for Cann V [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.])

And second, one other thing about "Trolls save a whopping two minutes on Torpors per hour". Look, if you told me I could save two minutes an hour while XPing I'd be tripping over myself to buy whatever you're selling. But at 60 you don't grind, you farm, and whether that's in a group or solo it's not about optimum efficiency, it's just about having enough to get the job done.
Lol I agree, Torporing from low HP and Mana is quite tedious. I still like it though. More interesting than sitting down and going AFK for 10 minutes.

I also agree that saving 2 minutes per hour is much more important when you are XPing to 60. I got Shawl 7 at level 52 to get an additional 600 mana per hour. Pre-Torpor, any HP/Mana regen you can get will increase your efficiency significantly.

The reason why saving 2 minutes becomes less useful with Torpor is because Torpor makes you the most efficient class in the game at regenerating HP and Mana, by a large margin. The only exception may be a cleric Complete Healing themselves with Manastone, but that is limited to the zones in which Manastone works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
loramin did you respond to this but delete it cause I deleted it? LOL. Sorry. I wanted to refresh my memory on ticks to not waste someone else's time but still found no resolution to the quandry.

Anyway the post:

Where are people getting this 4-5 torpor ticks from? I know i see it on the wiki, but that's not how it should work. Either it should wait for the first tick, and then give you all the ticks eventually or if p99 is simply using seconds duration for the spell and then only giving health on spell duration which overlap with the server ticks, then you'd never get 5 ticks either as you'd have to land the spell the exact moment a tick was happening just to get 4 ticks(which would mean you'd virtually never get 4 ticks either).

So how is this 5 ticks allegedly happening on p99?
I have seen Torpor give me 1500 HP back. It is a thing that happens, and it is not consistent. It depends on when you cast Torpor. I have no idea if this is "classic" or not. I haven't tried to game the system to make it consistent, either. It would be way too much effort, and when you are fighting a hard monster, you don't always have the luxury of waiting to Torpor.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 06-12-2020 at 11:40 PM..
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