Please check my math on Troll vs Ogre Shaman

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have seen Torpor give me 1500 HP back. It is a thing that happens, and it is not consistent. It depends on when you cast Torpor. I have no idea if this is "classic" or not. I haven't tried to game the system to make it consistent, either. It would be way too much effort, and when you are fighting a hard monster, you don't always have the luxury of waiting to Torpor.

How do you know it depends on when you cast it or that it will take a lot effort if you don't even know what's causing it? Even if it did take a lot of effort, increasing the effectiveness of one of the strongest spells in the game by 25%i s hardly something to walk away from flippantly.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How do you know it depends on when you cast it or that it will take a lot effort if you don't even know what's causing it? Even if it did take a lot of effort, increasing the effectiveness of one of the strongest spells in the game by 25%i s hardly something to walk away from flippantly.

This game works on a tick system. Normally, Torpor is supposed to heal 300 HP per 6 seconds for 4 ticks. This means you would get 300 HP at 6 seconds, 300 HP at 12 seconds, 300 HP at 18 seconds, and 300 HP at 24 seconds, for a total of 1200 HP.

My guess is the server just delivers the 300 HP on tick if Torpor is on your character as a buff. The 5th tick probably comes in to play when you cast Torpor right as the next server tick comes in. This means you will get 300 HP at 0 seconds. So you would get 300 HP at 0 seconds, 300 HP at 6 seconds, 300 HP at 12 seconds, 300 HP at 18 seconds, and 300 HP at 24 seconds for a total of 1500 HP.

Based on how Shamans work (they specifically use Regeneration as a mechanic), it would make sense that Torpor is more like a "super regeration" spell, as opposed to a DoT heal, like Celestial Healing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Regrowth mechanically could also give you one extra tick. It just obviously doesn't really matter for regrowth, since 15 HP is a much smaller value than 300 HP. I assume Torpor is working as intended, if it is designed this way.

EDIT: Just confirmed it. You get 1500 HP back if Torpor lands right when the next server tick comes in.

Think about it this way: There are two kinds of buffs in EQ. Buffs that the server needs to keep track of on a per tick basis, (Such as DoTs), and buffs that the server does NOT need to keep track of on a per tick basis (such as Resist Cold). Any buff that needs to be checked by the server on a per tick will always be limited to the damage it can deal.

A perfect example is Splurt. You will never see Splurt ratchet up one additional tick of damage, even if you cast it right on the server tick. Resist Cold, however, would not need to be kept track of on a per tick basis. The server just needs to know when the buff needs to wear off. Torpor and Regeneration most likely work the same as a buff like Resist Cold. The server doesn't keep track of how many ticks the spell has ticked, it just keeps track of when Torpor needs to wear off.

This method of keeping track of buffs makes sense. It is way more expensive from a data perspective to keep track of every single buff on a per tick basis. They save that ONLY for spells that need it.

[DMN]

Eh? the spells are supposed to be measured purely in ticks, which just coincidentally are 6 seconds a part. it should be virtually impossible to cast it on the first tick and even if it did would just count it as a tick,leaving you with just 3 more to go. See this wiki https://wiki.project1999.com/Vexing_Mordinia for a counter claim of getting less ticks than advertised. Something is fucky.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eh? the spells are supposed to be measured purely in ticks, which just coincidentally are 6 seconds a part. it should be virtually impossible to cast it on the first tick and even if it did would just count it as a tick,leaving you with just 3 more to go. See this wiki https://wiki.project1999.com/Vexing_Mordinia for a counter claim of getting less ticks than advertised. Something is fucky.

I just edited my post, so you may not have seen it. From a data perspective, you would NOT want to keep track of a spell like Aegolism on a per tick basis. That is hours of extra data going over the network. For buffs like Aegolism, you only need to keep track of when the buff wears off. This is because buffs like Aegolism do not do anything on tick. They just sit there. You are not trying to resist Aegolism every tick, for example.

You only need to keep track of a spell on a per tick basis when it needs to be tracked. DoTs, Roots, Mesmerizes, etc. would all be examples of spells you need to keep track of on a per tick basis. This is because you could resist the spell each tick. This means the game needs to be stricter on monitoring these kinds of spells. This is why you wouldn't get an extra tick on a DoT.

Regeneration and Torpor are probably classified in the first type of buff, a buff like Aegolism. The server doesn't care about the buff on a per tick basis. The server just cares about when the buff needs to wear off. This means you could get an extra tick of Regeneration, or Torpor, if you happened to land the spell right as the next server tick hit. I did confirm it on my Shaman, too. You only get 1500 HP if you land Torpor on the server tick.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just edited my post, so you may not have seen it. From a data perspective, you would NOT want to keep track of a spell like Aegolism on a per tick basis. That is hours of extra data going over the network. For buffs, you would only want to keep track of when the buff needs to wear off. This is because buffs do not do anything on tick. They just sit there. You are not trying to resist Aegolism every tick, for example.

You only need to keep track of a "buff" on a per tick basis when it needs to be kept track of. DoTs, Roots, Mesmerizes, etc. would all be examples of spells you need to keep track of on a per tick basis. This is because you could resist the spell each tick.

Regeneration and Torpor are probably classified in the first type of buff, a buff like Aegolism. The server doesn't care about the buff on a per tick basis, just when it needs to wear off.

It doesn't matter if it's considered a buff/debuff, the healing ticks should only be 4 at maximum. For instance, the fact you got hit by the speed debuff of torpor a couple of seconds before the tick shouldn't change the number of healing ticks, only the total time you are slowed/snared. So you may have been snared/slowed for 27 seconds, but you still only got healed for 4 ticks.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter if it's considered a buff/debuff, the healing ticks should only be 4 at maximum. For instance, the fact you got hit by the speed debuff of torpor a couple of seconds before the tick shouldn't change the number of healing ticks, only the total time you are slowed/snared. So you may have been snared/slowed for 27 seconds, but you still only got healed for 4 ticks.

I do programming for a living. This game was built in 1999. Keeping track of every single spell on a character on a per tick basis is a waste of your 56k modem's precious data.

There are two kinds of spells that can stick on a player:

1. Passive buffs
2. Spells that can be resisted.

For passive buffs, there is no need to check the buff on a per tick basis. The server just needs to know when the buff should wear off, and if the player has forcibly removed the buff.

For spells that can be resisted, the server must keep track of the spell on a per tick basis. This is because each tick could cause the spell to be resisted. These kinds of spells must be strictly monitored. This is why you cannot get an extra tick on a DoT, a root, a charm, etc.

For passive buffs, you COULD get an extra tick, because the server is just checking for when the spell wears off, not how many ticks the buff has lasted. Torpor is almost certainly classified as a passive buff with a short timer, rather than a DoT. It makes sense, since Torpor is like a super regeneration. The Regeneration line of spells probably works the same way. The server isn't checking the spell on a per tick basis. The server just checks if you have the buff, and gives you the extra HP.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I do programming for a living. This game was built in 1999. Keeping track of every single spell on a character on a per tick basis is a waste of your 56k modem's precious data.

There are two kinds of spells that can stick on a player:

1. Passive buffs
2. Spells that can be resisted.

For passive buffs, there is no need to check the buff on a per tick basis. The server just needs to know when the buff should wear off, and if the player has forcibly removed the buff.

For spells that can be resisted, the server must keep track of the spell on a per tick basis. This is because each tick could cause the spell to be resisted. These kinds of spells must be strictly monitored. This is why you cannot get an extra tick on a DoT, a root, a charm, etc.

For passive buffs, you COULD get an extra tick, because the server is just checking for when the spell wears off, not how many ticks the buff has lasted. Torpor is almost certainly classified as a passive buff with a short timer, rather than a DoT. It makes sense, since Torpor is like a super regeneration. The Regeneration line of spells probably works the same way. The server isn't checking the spell on a per tick basis. The server just checks if you have the buff, and gives you the extra HP.

It only heals you on a server tick. Server ticks are every 6 seconds. it lasts until it has healed you for 4 ticks. If you cast it just before a tick, it would heal you and count down 1 tick, if it was cast just after the tick it would not heal you for that tick nor count down 1 tick. How is this possibly confusing you?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It only heals you on a server tick. How is this possibly confusing you?

I am not confused at all lol. I am trying to fix your confusion. Let me be as clear as possible.

Torpor lasts 24 seconds, No matter what. Here is how you can get 1500 HP:

1. Topor Lands.
2. Server Tick happens right after Torpor Lands.
3. The buff has 24 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
4. The buff has 18 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
5. The buff has 12 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
6. The buff has 6 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
7. The buff has just over 0 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
8. Your state of Torpor ends.

Here is how you get 1200 HP:

1. Torpor Lands
2. Server tick happened 3 seconds ago.
3. The buff has 21 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
4. The buff has 15 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
5. The buff has 9 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
6. The buff has 3 seconds remaining, you gain 300 HP.
7. Your state of Torpor ends.
8. The next server tick happens, 3 seconds later.

The reason why Torpor acts like this is because the game does not strictly monitor how many times Torpor has healed you. The game only checks if you have Torpor on as a buff, and it gives you 300 HP every tick.

Torpor does NOT get checked in the same way as a spell like root. Root must last 8 ticks, no matter what, and root needs to be checked every tick, to see if the resistance check has been passed. There is different game logic when dealing with root spells, as opposed to spells like Torpor, Aegolism, etc.

[DMN]

No, this is how it works:

Server tick occurs.
"does client have torpor?"
No-> do nothing
yes->update life of player on server and set torpor to -1. send packet to player with updated life



if you got healed by torpor you lost a tick, the end of story. Even If you cast it "just before" the tick and the spell was measured in seconds not ticks, the 24 seconds will elapse just before the 5th tick.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, this is how it works:

Server tick occurs.
"does client have torpor?"
No-> do nothing
yes->update life of player on server and set torpor to -1. send packet to player with updated life



if you got healed by torpor you lost a tick, the end of story. Even If you cast it "just before" the tick and the spell was measured in seconds not ticks, the 24 seconds will "just run out before" the 5th tick.

You are wrong. I literally tested it in game. I have a Torpor Shaman. If you land Torpor right on the server tick, you get 5 ticks. It works exactly as I described in my previous post.

The problem is you think every spell in the game is using the same exact programming logic. It is not. Buffs like Aegolism, Regeneration, and Torpor do not get checked in the same way as a spell like root.