******Official politics thread ******

[Irulan]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I meant rot, failure to develop into a productive human being, can occur at any level. it happens more often at the bottom because it is difficult to acquire the behavioral resources necessary for success if they are not already in the family. money doesn't fix everything.

I liked the last sentence in that first paragraph though lol

Also, your choice of work isn't a bad aspiration either.

Yes.

[Wonkie]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

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[America]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

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pls explain. you mean taxation? or employment? not sure what angle you're goin for

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Wonkie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what if the thing the person is unhappy about is the value of their labor being stolen? is that also their own fault?

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this doesn't seem like serious question.

*glowers at the little dog*

[Irulan]

Throndor = Xaanka? Feels like the tent city and street rat at 16 is a Xaanka comment.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

pls explain. you mean taxation? or employment? not sure what angle you're goin for

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by America [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i got what you meant silly ^^ my post reflects it!~

oh okay. you're post read like it was parodying mine, so I thought maybe I wasn't communicating effectively. I wasn't saying that trust funds make people unhappy. to the contrary, they very likely make many people happy. I am also sure most people would like to have one and they would enjoy many benefits with one (I wouldn't mind to have one!) It would not however necessarily grant them or allow them to acquire the skills necessary to become a productive and responsible human being. If we are talking about a scenario of unlimited resources, then maybe that doesn't matter. When everything automates later this century,maybe none of it will matter. if so, that's fantastic. I've seen when "help" hurts though by stifling or completely arresting growth many, many, many times and so I remain cautious of help without direction/conditions.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's the cost of labor,

The cost of materials,

The cost of management,

Then there is surplus.

The surplus produced goes a 100% to the "owner" of the venture. But that "owner" didn't do anything except own something. The owner can do other things on the list above, but that is beside the point.

The point is, the owner was not producing any value by owning anything. They merely claim it belongs to them by right.

Capitalism is based on people that are productive being paid less than they actually produce.

This is a necessary evil to get "investment" to start the venture in some cases. Especially in early human development. But after awhile, it is no longer necessary to set up the system that way.

That's the bases of Marxist theory. Capitalism is a phase in history were those that "own stuff" (starting with feudalism) invest in ventures to get more. Then Socialism comes along, and the productive members of the venture seize control over the "means of production."

Because their working/producing and the owner isn't.

and there is a whole list of reasons why that is inevitable. Starting with "concentration of capital" where a small group eventually own everything and use market power to take more and more for themselves until all the workers are subsistence workers.

I don't know that seizing has ever worked out well. success must be throttled to maintain competition and innovation. that much is certain. Performance also increases when employees are the only shareholders.

[JurisDictum]

Were living in a country seized from natives that goes around the world seizing natural resources. Seizing works great.

Doesn't have to be armed revolution though.

The real anti-Marx argument is basically that government spending and wealth transfers will redirect resources enough to prevent this from happening. Marx never saw the rise of the American Middle Class....which happened around post FDR I might add.

But modern Marxists just argued that the real "proletariat" or underclass, was in 3rd world countries. It all starts getting convoluted and I'm actually about to take off.

[I Felt Nostalgic]

Guys, the world is going to end in 12 years according to Beto and Alexandria so does any of this really matter?