|
|
#31
06-07-2019, 03:24 PM
|
|||||
|
Quote:
On these fights were you utilizing trueshot or straight up meleeing? Do you own/use a BFG? If we’re incorporating trueshot (up 2 min with 72 refresh) and/or using BFG it makes total sense but that doesn’t reflect actual expected ranger damage globally. Rangers spend 35x more time not in trueshot than under disc. Regarding BFG you can’t exactly summon/fletch enough arrows to keep it up continually. If we’re talking literally melee damage vs melee damage ... I don’t know man. It simply doesn’t make sense. It could be true, but it neither computes nor have I heard this to be a consensus generally held by the community. I certainly have not seen it. I’ve seen ToV rangers beat lesser geared monks. I’ve parsed Aikons (old friend) sustain numbers with just my shaman’s gimp ass haste that I’ve never seen any ranger consistently maintain. It’s better weapons, more hits, higher offense, more total hits vs innate ranger attack + ?? I dunno. Maybe? Doesn’t make a lick of rational sense though. What I do know is my epic/sos monk 34% worn haste consistently beats out a 60 ranger buddy with blam stick and swiftwind.
__________________
Quote:
 . | ||||
|
|
|||||
|
#33
06-07-2019, 04:03 PM
|
||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
| |||||
|
Last edited by deezy; 06-07-2019 at 04:05 PM..
Reason: speelingz
|
|
|||||
|
#34
06-07-2019, 08:16 PM
|
|||||
|
Quote:
ToV level raiding is unique in that most end-game raid weapons are multiclass and all of the mutliclass last I checked cap out several clicks under the 0.8 ratio. Monk weapons are over 0.8 (0.83 specifically I think). A ToV monk will use these weapons while waiting on class specific drops because they’re better than kunark. It’s an interesting situation where for a narrow window of times everyone is functioning with identical weaponry levels. It’s a temporary bump. If you give a monk 2 jade maces and a ranger 2 jade maces the dps is going to be closer than it would if the monk was allowed to use superior monk specific ratios. Most melee have 13/20 primals. Monks get 15/20. In kunark rangers sport epic ratios. Monk epic at it’s speed provides a big advantage ... nevermind the fact that pre-velious they can double up on 16/22 sky fists. Long story short: it’s disingenuous (purposely or otherwise) to compare class potential when one of them is more or less using BiS class ratios and the other one is just waiting on theirs to drop. Prior to ToV monk ratio weapons are readily available and more potent in pretty significant ways. From level 1 if twinking monks have this advantage, fairly or otherwise, up until the moment a guild breaks into ToV. There’s a temporary speedbump where a guild acquires weapons in general but hasn’t seen the monk specific drops where the playing field is more level. I used Aikons as an example intentionally. I know he has his BiS ratios. His white damage alone (can’t parse procs) with just 50% shaman haste is absolutely insane even while tanking. I’d love to see how crazy it’d be raid buffed and in a dps group. Even more, I’d love to see it side by side the melee dps of a melee BiS ranger in the same group with the same buffs. I’m pretty confident I know which person would put out bigger numbers. It’s the same person (class) who put out higher numbers in kunark.
__________________
Quote:
. | ||||
|
Last edited by Troxx; 06-07-2019 at 08:19 PM..
|
|
||||
|
#35
06-07-2019, 08:26 PM
|
||||
|
Rangers make a strong class. Especially raid geared velious they do plenty of damage. None of this it to imply that they’re not good or capable. If anything it just goes to show how monks were just given special toys in a tier of their own while also having the absolute highest values for offensive skills possible in the game. There’s a reason they ended up getting knocked down 12 pegs in the expansions after velious. Verant/Sony realizes they screwed up royally in making a class that tanked too well, had a stranglehold on critical pulling, and simultaneously put out obscene damage relative to everything else in their toolkit.
When the final patch hits we’ll get to see that final (but classic) miss-step on the part of developers. 55+ monks will have better dmg tables than any 60 melee. 60 they make the final jump on top of innate triple attack.
__________________
Quote:
. | |||
|
|
||||
|
#36
06-07-2019, 10:43 PM
|
||||||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
| |||||||
|
|
||||||||
|
#37
06-08-2019, 02:39 AM
|
||||
|
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Aikons
I count 3 auras of battle. Are you implying 30 less worn attack means he does 10-15% less dps? His damage is high because he’s a level 60 monk with 41% worn haste and 15/18 ( 0.833) and 16/19 weapons (0.842). Ranger vulak sword 15/21 clocks in at 0.714. Baton of Flame 13/17 best ratio 1hb is 0.765. BiS offhand claw of lightning 14/18 is 0.778. Monk weapon for primary is 8.88% better than ranger BiS. Monk offhand is 8.2% better than ranger BiS. I really don’t think I’ve got more to add to this conversation unless parses with context are dropped. Show me a monk with one or both of the monk weapons who is consistently beaten by an ultra high end melee ranger both with equal buffs and equal time spent fighting and I’ll concede there is some mythical witchcraft at play that allows for the violation of math and common sense. Otherwise it simply doesn’t compute how a class with higher offense, weapon skills, double attack, duel wield, all on top of weapon ratios >8% better loses out to the class that has some bonus attack. Does the degree of the bonus even result in higher total attack factoring in the attack lost from lower weapon and offense caps. I am very strongly suspicious that the “3/4” of parses you’ve reviewed where you claim ranger superiority involve monks missing out on a sizable portion of the fight because they were flopped, waiting for a coth, zoning out after pulling for you, or some combination of the above. Or monks undergeared without the perfect stack of buffs. /shrug It doesn’t matter. This side derail conversation only exists because a few threads back there was assertion that rangers generally put out more damage than monks at the high end. I never saw it at the low end, in groups at the high end (involving spreads of casual vs. casual or high end raider vs raider), or in raids unless the monks were busy pulling or the rare pretty trueshot burn. For this part of the conversation I’m done, friend, unless some credible parses are put up. If you have any I would legitimately love to see them. Please provide the relevant details including how long each player was engaged on target (easy with gamparse) so we can make sure the monk didn’t spend the first 30+ seconds of the fight not engaged.
__________________
Quote:
. | |||
|
|
||||
|
#38
06-08-2019, 03:04 PM
|
|||
|
/GU Nexona in 19s, 23k @1214dps --- Vertiigo 3k @199dps --- Hiddenn 2k @135dps --- Cheddleton 2k @128dps --- Ripqozko 2k @111dps --- Drakewu 2k @142dps --- Stabithaa 2k @99dps --- Cartel 1k @88dps --- Gatitos 1k @92dps --- Blee 1k @85dps --- Droar 1k @92dps
/GU Hoshkar in 77s, 30k @385dps --- Ripqozko 6k @106dps --- Skew 5k @96dps --- Servicon 5k @84dps --- Knapsack 3k @59dps --- Trazzle 3k @58dps --- Orna 3k @45dps --- Naxi 2k @33dps --- Rikyr 1k @26dps --- Papaj 1k @21dps --- Nexii 0k @28dps /GU Velketor the Sorcerer in 210s, 189k @899dps --- Dalvens 19k @104dps --- Judass 18k @100dps --- Ripqozko 18k @97dps --- Noctessa 16k @89dps --- Enessae 13k @69dps --- Bageljuice 12k @64dps --- Kozuro 11k @61dps --- Arvan 10k @52dps --- Xyram 8k @47dps --- Niht 8k @40dps /GU Derakor the Vindicator in 132s, 175k @1326dps --- A Drakkel Dire Wolf 20k @161dps --- Knapsack 16k @121dps --- Ripqozko 15k @118dps --- Idrinkk 13k @109dps --- Rikyr 12k @92dps --- Trazzle 12k @89dps --- Gatitos 11k @87dps --- Logaluger 11k @85dps --- Jenssen 10k @78dps --- Torstein 10k @75dps /GU Jorlleag in 249s, 302k @1214dps --- Cecily 19k @78dps --- Maggott 19k @78dps --- Ripqozko 19k @76dps --- Pryckd 17k @70dps --- Secher 16k @69dps --- Coppernin 16k @66dps --- Briefs 16k @66dps --- Knapsack 15k @59dps --- Edashi 13k @58dps That's some my bfg parses I found | ||
|
|
|||
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
