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  #81  
Old 11-11-2022, 11:32 PM
Gustoo Gustoo is offline
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  #82  
Old 11-12-2022, 02:34 PM
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Logged on for a little bit & provided some feedback on the forums.

https://pvpeq.com/
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  #83  
Old 11-12-2022, 02:37 PM
Latisrof Latisrof is offline
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Just made a toon!
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  #84  
Old 11-12-2022, 02:43 PM
azxten azxten is offline
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Having made a beta version available that implements all the PvP and zone changes the biggest body of work left seems to be making things classic. I found out the implementation of expansions in EQEmu is relatively new and there is an ongoing project to improve that so that classic servers are easy to create. I think I figured out how to reverse engineer most of P99 and TAKP by myself so that is the direction I'll go in now.

I'm tempted to create a real fork of EQEmu that both improves the ability to restrict by expansion and starts to include classic mechanics as easily chosen functionality based on expansion. There is a point though where I'd have to put in enough effort to gain community contribution and I'm not sure if I'm up for it.

If one could reach that critical mass I think you could outpace both of these projects in terms of "classicness" by virtue of being the only open source classic EQEmu project that provides both the EQEmu fork and classic database needed to achieve this. ProjectEQ not providing classic zone data is a big hole that is forcing so many people to create their own classic server. It's less important on the EQEmu side as functions are easy to change, piles of quest and spawn data where you don't know what the new values should be are not. Ideally this would involve rolling a new loginserver to fully fork the current EQEmu into a new community that has no reliance on them. The way the loginserver works today with pinned server categories it will always be difficult to gain legitimacy with players who see your servers are literally "beneath" a selection of other servers that is primarily just a certain group of developers of EQEmu.

You have to separate the concept of running an emulated server and that emulated server existing in the paradigm of loginserver control given to a few people. Not to mention they also control all your account logins and passwords and therefore if you were to make such a commitment as mentioned above you are at their mercy to not purge your server data making all players permanently lose access to their characters.

So do I have basically the willingness to fork EQEmu and make classic era available for everyone including classic data and then also build an open source community/bug report system and roll a new loginserver and account management interface? Probably not... but it'd be a lot cooler if I did. I could also try to contribute within the existing EQEmu project and such but it sounds like historically there was some fundamental differences in opinion about open sourcing classic era code and functionality with people like image feeling it should be open source. So that is a battle that already happened there. Sounds like it's put up or shut up time now with regards to a truly open classic EQ project. TAKP is promising to do this but if they're going to open source it then they should shit or get off the pot and a questionable amount of their functionality will be tied to their specific EQMac client that no one seems to like.

Plus there is the client problem looming over it all. That person who made openeq had the right idea it's another critical piece that basically HAS to happen. If I had a client I could provide people I'd pay for advertising to build a EQ PVP community by appealing to the larger PVP MMO community but since I can't provide the client you're always at the mercy of a tiny community of people and can't organically grow. With the level of effort mentioned with this client and the above you're looking at roughly a $1 million effort as a rough estimate if you paid for developers to implement everything. I'm just reflecting on the state of things in general. I don't like where EQemu is as a project but I certainly didn't put in the 20 years of work so I can't complain.
Last edited by azxten; 11-12-2022 at 02:56 PM..
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  #85  
Old 11-12-2022, 04:45 PM
Old_PVP Old_PVP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Having made a beta version available that implements all the PvP and zone changes the biggest body of work left seems to be making things classic. I found out the implementation of expansions in EQEmu is relatively new and there is an ongoing project to improve that so that classic servers are easy to create. I think I figured out how to reverse engineer most of P99 and TAKP by myself so that is the direction I'll go in now.

I'm tempted to create a real fork of EQEmu that both improves the ability to restrict by expansion and starts to include classic mechanics as easily chosen functionality based on expansion. There is a point though where I'd have to put in enough effort to gain community contribution and I'm not sure if I'm up for it.

If one could reach that critical mass I think you could outpace both of these projects in terms of "classicness" by virtue of being the only open source classic EQEmu project that provides both the EQEmu fork and classic database needed to achieve this. ProjectEQ not providing classic zone data is a big hole that is forcing so many people to create their own classic server. It's less important on the EQEmu side as functions are easy to change, piles of quest and spawn data where you don't know what the new values should be are not. Ideally this would involve rolling a new loginserver to fully fork the current EQEmu into a new community that has no reliance on them. The way the loginserver works today with pinned server categories it will always be difficult to gain legitimacy with players who see your servers are literally "beneath" a selection of other servers that is primarily just a certain group of developers of EQEmu.

You have to separate the concept of running an emulated server and that emulated server existing in the paradigm of loginserver control given to a few people. Not to mention they also control all your account logins and passwords and therefore if you were to make such a commitment as mentioned above you are at their mercy to not purge your server data making all players permanently lose access to their characters.

So do I have basically the willingness to fork EQEmu and make classic era available for everyone including classic data and then also build an open source community/bug report system and roll a new loginserver and account management interface? Probably not... but it'd be a lot cooler if I did. I could also try to contribute within the existing EQEmu project and such but it sounds like historically there was some fundamental differences in opinion about open sourcing classic era code and functionality with people like image feeling it should be open source. So that is a battle that already happened there. Sounds like it's put up or shut up time now with regards to a truly open classic EQ project. TAKP is promising to do this but if they're going to open source it then they should shit or get off the pot and a questionable amount of their functionality will be tied to their specific EQMac client that no one seems to like.

Plus there is the client problem looming over it all. That person who made openeq had the right idea it's another critical piece that basically HAS to happen. If I had a client I could provide people I'd pay for advertising to build a EQ PVP community by appealing to the larger PVP MMO community but since I can't provide the client you're always at the mercy of a tiny community of people and can't organically grow. With the level of effort mentioned with this client and the above you're looking at roughly a $1 million effort as a rough estimate if you paid for developers to implement everything. I'm just reflecting on the state of things in general. I don't like where EQemu is as a project but I certainly didn't put in the 20 years of work so I can't complain.
Honestly, that would be awesome if it could be done! Project1999 and all other EQEmu servers have never been truly classic and its a real shame. The Titanium UI irrevocably changes the classic experience. I believe one other project called "EQClassic" was working on reversing a lot of that but it never panned out. I wonder if anything can be gathered from that?

http://www.eqclassic.org/index.php

Quote:
The way the loginserver works today with pinned server categories it will always be difficult to gain legitimacy with players who see your servers are literally "beneath" a selection of other servers that is primarily just a certain group of developers of EQEmu.
So true... that was the first thing I noticed. It will be difficult to bring new people in when the server isn't listed on top in the "Legends" and "Preferred" sections.
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  #86  
Old 11-12-2022, 05:00 PM
azxten azxten is offline
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This is the future of emulated EQ. Maybe not this client but one like it.

https://github.com/daeken/OpenEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moLBr4B8PoE

Currently "re3" a GTA reverse engineered client is being sued by Take Two for doing exactly this. They're also reusing art assets like this from the original game and saying you need to obtain a copy of the game to get those assets. It's nearly an identical legal situation. The devs of that project haven't folded yet and it's still available on Github but there hasn't been any news I saw in the past year or so since they were sued. I am hoping to see how that case ends soon because it will set a legal precedent about this situation and for me at least would be motivation to build a client knowing it is legally viable.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/...-twos-lawsuit/

There is an unofficial TAKP Wiki that has a link to a .zip file of EQMac client hosted on dropbox. I'm not willing to play legal whack a mole like that. "Oh we don't endorse providing the client as TAKP. Some fans have a Wiki where it is provided." "Oh we don't provide the file on the Wiki. Someone uploaded it to Dropbox not us." It's funny because that is probably a more sound legal strategy than an actually legal reverse engineered client where they can squeeze your nuts with legal fees even though they'll lose in the end.
Last edited by azxten; 11-12-2022 at 05:19 PM..
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  #87  
Old 11-12-2022, 05:17 PM
azxten azxten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latisrof [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Just made a toon!
Sweet let me know what you think, provide some feedback on the forums I'll convert things to bug reports.
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  #88  
Old 11-12-2022, 09:08 PM
Gustoo Gustoo is offline
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Does the Alkabor project somehow have the real server side client from
The live alkabor server?

If so abandon titanium and use that. That was a classic server launched in the heyday. It’s differences will be superior to the differences of the emu client
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  #89  
Old 11-12-2022, 09:12 PM
azxten azxten is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Does the Alkabor project somehow have the real server side client from
The live alkabor server?

If so abandon titanium and use that. That was a classic server launched in the heyday. It’s differences will be superior to the differences of the emu client
They have an older client that predates Titanium I'm not sure when it's from exactly. They claim to be the "more classic" server because they use this client and also have some kind of data capture from the EQ Mac server during a closer to Velious era which informs their NPC positions and other details. For example they say they capture the type of face NPC had, etc.

Personally I'm like I really don't give a fuck if an NPC has the right face or not if channeling is still broken BUT TAKP also has classic channeling and it was one of their devs who really found that evidence I built my case on. They already fixed this.

I have an idea for a grand project that I might disappear to work on for a bit but I think it could make everything better for classic EQ.
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  #90  
Old 11-13-2022, 02:02 PM
Records Records is offline
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With love Azxten,

Your map is terrible, especially since it has custom aspects for where you zone to.
- If you provide the zone connections in a readable format, I can help recreate it.
- e.g. (Steamfont > Lesser Faydark, Steamfont > (Prev Akanon) Butcherblock)

Creating your own login server/Going against a login server that everyone uses is probably not the right move, for the EQ or EQ PVP community.
- It's a timesink, where you could be spending time on developing a better pvp server.
- How bad is the data segregation vs an unpopulated server, with extra steps?
- I would rather have exposure to the general community of EQemu players, rather than split communities up. Think about longevity of most EQemu servers, and especially EQ Pvp, they die - which makes people feel like they've wasted their time. If your goal is to focus on a long lasting PVP server, people wouldn't have to question if they're wasting their time or not. They want some stability.
Last edited by Records; 11-13-2022 at 02:06 PM..
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