Melee Worthlessness - The Biggest Balance Problem There Is

[HalflingSpergand]

The dev guy? Gtfo out of here u scrub

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Midoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then World of Warcraft comes out and all their classes are just differently themed DPS, and the only class variety is what color of fireball comes out of your ass when you faceroll

Well, technically you are describing the evolution of WoW

In Vanilla and TBC classes had their uniqueness. Warlocks would summon, mages would port, rogues and druid had their stealth, etc. The big negatives on launch were 1.) the game was made far too easy (everyone recognizes this), and 2.) balancing issues (having paladins made alliance objectively better at PvE, certain specs of multiple classes were completely gimp, etc)

Then as WoW went on, the devs made a terrible idea in the name of balance to just homogenize all the classes. They gave self-heals to just about every DPS, stealth to mages and hunters and who knows what else (I haven't played since WOTLK), CC to literally everyone, etc. Every class became a homogenous blob

They still couldn't balance their PvP, which I believe was the entire reason for the homogenization of the classes. So that concept in my opinion was a complete failure and contributed to a noted decline in WoW's popularity as the game went on

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogues do the most damage of any class Classic->velious

No. Necros/Mages/Enchanters in Classic (although most players at the time didn't realize it about Enchanters) were by FAR the best, Bards and Druids could do some game-changing things too, and Monks were generally more damage than Rogues before the backstab buff as well.

Rogues really came into their own during Kunark, but still get outclassed by Charm in places where it can be reliably used, and Mages still do more damage in a lot of situations as well, particularly pre-Epic era of Kunark.

Rogues for Raid DPS in Velious are often the best, this is their most shining era (aside from Stealing during early Classic, which technically can be considered the most game-changing thing of all), but still inferior to Enchanters any time they can reliably use Charm.

[DMN]

Actually necros could do even more in those similar raid situations also assuming there was viable charm targets for them, as they could also land their taps on virtually everything... i think saw maybe two or three completely immune to tap raid enemies in all of vanila/kunark.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No. Necros/Mages/Enchanters in Classic (although most players at the time didn't realize it about Enchanters) were by FAR the best, Bards and Druids could do some game-changing things too, and Monks were generally more damage than Rogues before the backstab buff as well.

Rogues really came into their own during Kunark, but still get outclassed by Charm in places where it can be reliably used, and Mages still do more damage in a lot of situations as well, particularly pre-Epic era of Kunark.

Rogues for Raid DPS in Velious are often the best, this is their most shining era (aside from Stealing during early Classic, which technically can be considered the most game-changing thing of all), but still inferior to Enchanters any time they can reliably use Charm.

A hasted and geared rogue definitely does more DPS than a mage.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A hasted and geared rogue definitely does more DPS than a mage.

He said before epics in kunark in speific situations. certainly there is zero chance of a rogue out dpsing pure mana dumping mage. if not mana dumping, what kind of gear you talking? backstabbing water pet + 30 DPs per second clicky+ shielded tank+unslowed mobs = a lot of dps.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He said before epics in kunark in speific situations. certainly there is zero chance of a rogue out dpsing pure mana dumping mage. if not mana dumping, what kind of gear you talking? backstabbing water pet + 30 DPs per second clicky+ shielded tank+unslowed mobs = a lot of dps.

Oh sure if a mage is just nuking through their entire mana bar for that fight then good chance he will put dps a rogue. But I was speaking of more normal/realistic situations in a group where the mage is usually just sending pet in and maybe nuking once

[Zuranthium]

Mage pet + damage shield + normal cast damage is definitely more DPS than a Rogue who doesn't have the best Kunark-era weapons. The best weapons of that era still might fall behind actually, I'd be interested in seeing exact parses. Plus, it was uncommon back in the day for someone to have even close to the best weapons in game (still true for any new server), whereas casters get a much higher baseline of capability automatically.

[Vaarsuvius]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage pet + damage shield + normal cast damage is definitely more DPS than a Rogue who doesn't have the best Kunark-era weapons. The best weapons of that era still might fall behind actually, I'd be interested in seeing exact parses. Plus, it was uncommon back in the day for someone to have even close to the best weapons in game (still true for any new server), whereas casters get a much higher baseline of capability automatically.

Depends on the target too, mages being limited to fire and magic nukes. I yet have to understand why we don't have a single frost based DD...

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Vaarsuvius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends on the target too, mages being limited to fire and magic nukes. I yet have to understand why we don't have a single frost based DD...

Mages don’t get a cold cos they can summon a mask.