25 NPC AoE Limit

[jungels]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nothing about making non-classic changes equals classic.

I do think bards were out of control pulling entire parts of zones.
Also the 25 ae limit changed some raiding strats, like AEing fear trash.

So it's hard to say No or Yes. I want classic everquest but bad eggs ruin it for everyone else.

Someone else made a snide remark about leveling... my wizard and mage are actually 60 so it's not even about that anymore. If we're just making changes because you don't like it, it's not classic and defeats the purpose. If we can just make this change then why not bring back buff timers? The LFG interface? Add in the raid window?..... install the bazaar?? I mean I don't understand. The game is the game and people come here to play it how they remember. I know 100% I was doing AE pulls in Seb, on live, during velious. Maybe it wasn't 100 mobs but it was damn sure more than 25.

[JustinWK]

The limitation certainly isn't classic. There's no argument there.

And the counterargument that "BUT BARDS" is a shit one. Enforce the PNP.

[Gustoo]

Just disable bards problem solved.

[loramin]

Y'all are missing the biggest reason why they made the change. Look, Nilbog hates doing anything for the classic experience; 99 out of 100 (999 out of 1000?) times he'll pick classic mechanics over classic experience. Just look at Enchanters here: their experience is nothing like the live one, but Nilbog is convinced he has the mechanics for them right, so their unclassic experience remains.

So why then did he make an "classic experience" exception in this one specific case, when it's antithetical to everything else he does? Hint: it's not because he specifically hates bards ... it's because prior to the AoE limit, Bards were dominating zones like OT, taking everyone's mobs. People would then try and screw with the bards, creating a mess of petitions from both sides.

That is why Nilbog instituted the AoE limits: because our all volunteer GM squad had better things to do than babysit Overthere (and other swarm kite zones) 24/7. If you want to change the limit, convince the staff that it won't result in a million new petitions for them to have to deal with ... or else give up.

[JustinWK]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Y'all are missing the biggest reason why they made the change. Look, Nilbog hates doing anything for the classic experience; 99 out of 100 (999 out of 1000?) times he'll pick classic mechanics over classic experience. Just look at Enchanters here: their experience is nothing like the live one, but Nilbog is convinced he has the mechanics for them right, so their unclassic experience remains.

So why then did he make an exception in this one specific case, when it's antithetical to everything else he does? Hint: it's not because he specifically hates bards ... it's because prior to the AoE limit, Bards were dominating zones like OT, taking everyone's mobs. People would then try and screw with the bards, creating a mess of petitions from both sides.

That is why Nilbog instituted the AoE limits: because our all volunteer GM squad had better things to do than babysit Overthere (and other swarm kite zones) 24/7. If you want to change the limit, convince the staff that it won't result in a million new petitions ... or else give up.

Interesting. So, you think the issue is that WE are missing the point, versus not agreeing with the reason or seeing alternative solutions as more practical? That's a bizarre assumption.

If the problem is BARDS, then make it a BARD problem, not an entire server problem. Again, that's just a really bad argument.

PNP enforcement, bard AoE spell limitations, ban the douche who decides an entire zone belongs to them?

[Jorgam]

Not commenting on if it should or should not be a thing here, but I specifically recall AE Seb groups where you had a war (earthshaker / riposte disc), cleric, enc, enc, mages or wizards pulling all of disco and disco 2 and obliterating it. It was boss. Being able to do things like that here would make for a lot of fun in some areas that don't see much travel now with the xp mod changes.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by JustinWK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting. So, you think the issue is that WE are missing the point, versus not agreeing with the reason or seeing alternative solutions as more practical? That's a bizarre assumption.

If the problem is BARDS, then make it a BARD problem, not an entire server problem. Again, that's just a really bad argument.

PNP enforcement, bard AoE spell limitations, ban the douche who decides an entire zone belongs to them?

I'm saying that if you show up in 2021 and start complaining how things are here and trying to change them ... maybe it would behoove you to understand how they got to be that way first. Otherwise you risk wasting a bunch of energy on "solutions" that don't in any way address the actual problem that the 25 AoE limit was created to solve.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Jorgam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not commenting on if it should or should not be a thing here, but I specifically recall AE Seb groups where you had a war (earthshaker / riposte disc), cleric, enc, enc, mages or wizards pulling all of disco and disco 2 and obliterating it. It was boss. Being able to do things like that here would make for a lot of fun in some areas that don't see much travel now with the xp mod changes.

Yes: it wasn't just a Bard issue either! Another clear problem was Chardok, which was exclusively an AoE group zone for years here on P99.

[Allishia]

Yes bring back chardok aoe please, that was my $ maker! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Area effect spell limit works okay for most cases. Former problems like Chardok AE are an increasingly distant memory. For bards it isn't enough and they should be limited down to 4. It's still difficult to use Dragon Necropolis without being trained by some nitwit bard who thinks he owns the place. Petitioning doesn't do any good when there's almost never any staff online to read it and they can't do anything when they finally get to it after the fact to it a few days later. I've seen a guide online exactly once in the past month.

AE limit can safely be removed from P99 when the following conditions are met:

--P99 achieves fulltime staffing with 24/7 coverage and immediate /petition response.
--AE-pull-related deliberate trains are met with mandatory permanent bans for first-time offense.
--Bard class is deleted entirely.

Without those conditions in place, large-scale AE is more trouble than it's worth. I won't listen to "Not classic." You know what's classic? Having fulltime staff support with 24/7 coverage.

Danth