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  #41  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:46 AM
Oleris Oleris is offline
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  #42  
Old 05-29-2019, 11:19 AM
loramin loramin is offline
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  #43  
Old 06-01-2019, 01:54 PM
Puluin Puluin is offline
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*EDIT* apparently I did not see that llandris quietly updated the raid faq to include this list... however I see zero discussion or agreement from the different raiding guilds regarding this... Looks like this list was added on a whim without any real thought behind it.

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Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This seemed like something that should be general knowledge, so I wikified it:

http://wiki.project1999.com/FTE_Race_Lines

If there are any changes to these lines (or if I got the rules summary at the top wrong in any way) please feel free to correct it yourself; it's a wiki!
This list would be wonderfully ideal if it weren't for the fact some.of these zones have several legit zonelines.
Cobalt scar has two 2-way zonelines ( true zone lines ) and two 1-way zone lines. If a portal ring is considered a legit zonelines while being only a 1-way zone in, you must also consider the PoM 1-way zone in as a legit zoneline.

Now there could be an argument made for using the 1-way zone in prior to pop. I.e. should 1-way zones be treated like plane of fear where people must wait outside until pop?

However, both SS and SG zonelines are legit 2-way zonelines and in no way go against the fte rules as far as a starting line goes.

Sol B - this zone also has several legit 2-way zonelines, while most are not viable choices, the rear zoneline between sola and solb is in fact a legit zoneline as far as the fte rules state.

Without specific clarification and addition to our current fte rules there is little to no reason for someone to believe there is any difference between a given zoneline whether that be a port ring/spire, a 2-way zoneline, or a 1-way zoneline.

TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R this wiki page would be ideal if the zonelines were in fact clarified. However, they are not and this list is merely an unofficial interpretation of the facts without any real confirmation and merely serves to cause more confusing arguments between players.
Last edited by Puluin; 06-01-2019 at 02:02 PM..
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  #44  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:06 PM
loramin loramin is offline
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Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
*EDIT* apparently I did not see that llandris quietly updated the raid faq to include this list... however I see zero discussion or agreement from the different raiding guilds regarding this... Looks like this list was added on a whim without any real thought behind it.



This list would be wonderfully ideal if it weren't for the fact some.of these zones have several legit zonelines.
Cobalt scar has two 2-way zonelines ( true zone lines ) and two 1-way zone lines. If a portal ring is considered a legit zonelines while being only a 1-way zone in, you must also consider the PoM 1-way zone in as a legit zoneline.

Now there could be an argument made for using the 1-way zone in prior to pop. I.e. should 1-way zones be treated like plane of fear where people must wait outside until pop?

However, both SS and SG zonelines are legit 2-way zonelines and in no way go against the fte rules as far as a starting line goes.

Sol B - this zone also has several legit 2-way zonelines, while most are not viable choices, the rear zoneline between sola and solb is in fact a legit zoneline as far as the fte rules state.

Without specific clarification and addition to our current fte rules there is little to no reason for someone to believe there is any difference between a given zoneline whether that be a port ring/spire, a 2-way zoneline, or a 1-way zoneline.

TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R this wiki page would be ideal if the zonelines were in fact clarified. However, they are not and this list is merely an unofficial interpretation of the facts without any real confirmation and merely serves to cause more confusing arguments between players.
Sounds like something you should ask your guild representative to raise at the guild summit.
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  #45  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:16 PM
zodium zodium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If a portal ring is considered a legit zonelines while being only a 1-way zone in, you must also consider the PoM 1-way zone in as a legit zoneline.
Why?
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  #46  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:19 PM
rezzie rezzie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
*EDIT* apparently I did not see that llandris quietly updated the raid faq to include this list... however I see zero discussion or agreement from the different raiding guilds regarding this... Looks like this list was added on a whim without any real thought behind it.
It was discussed amongst a number of guilds who all agreed that the list posted by Llandris was basically in line with current rules and conventions. The list is merely to document what people currently use so everyone could be on the same page.

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Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This list would be wonderfully ideal if it weren't for the fact some.of these zones have several legit zonelines.
We could go round the houses all day where to make lines, but the posted ones seemed fair and conventional.

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Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R this wiki page would be ideal if the zonelines were in fact clarified. However, they are not and this list is merely an unofficial interpretation of the facts without any real confirmation and merely serves to cause more confusing arguments between players.
It's posted by staff in the raid rules; it's as official as it's ever going to be.

The lines are now clearly posted so there's no hidden ruleset. How is this more confusing than before?
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  #47  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:29 PM
Puluin Puluin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If a portal ring is considered a legit zonelines while being only a 1-way zone in, you must also consider the PoM 1-way zone in as a legit zoneline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zodium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Why?
Because they act in the same manner. Both are a 1-way zone in from a different place, with the ability to zone in from PoM being much more restrictive in the sense you must take the risk to even GET to PoM. Opposed to a port which can be done from any location.

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Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
It was discussed amongst a number of guilds who all agreed that the list posted by Llandris was basically in line with current rules and conventions. The list is merely to document what people currently use so everyone could be on the same page.
Where was this discussion from guild leaders? I know i've been gone for a bit, but i am failing to find any discussion on the raid forum (which is where the guild leaders should be discussing stuff like this...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The lines are now clearly posted so there's no hidden ruleset. How is this more confusing than before?
you obviously missed my edit stating i did not see that llandris posted it...
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  #48  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:34 PM
rezzie rezzie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puluin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Where was this discussion from guild leaders? I know i've been gone for a bit, but i am failing to find any discussion on the raid forum (which is where the guild leaders should be discussing stuff like this...)
The raid forum is woefully outdated atm and most current guild/raid leaders can't post there. The discussion was in a Discord channel with Aegis, AG, AM, BG, Core, PS as far as I know. Everyone there agreed the posted list was effectively the de facto standard, so documented it.

Llandris posted it so everyone is held to the same rules and not just a subset of guilds.
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  #49  
Old 06-01-2019, 02:46 PM
Puluin Puluin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rezzie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
The raid forum is woefully outdated atm and most current guild/raid leaders can't post there. The discussion was in a Discord channel with Aegis, AG, AM, BG, Core, PS as far as I know. Everyone there agreed the posted list was effectively the de facto standard, so documented it.

Llandris posted it so everyone is held to the same rules and not just a subset of guilds.
Thank you for the much better and clarified info. While I feel annoyed it was not more publicly discussed or acknowledged such a discussion was taking place, I do appreciate the more specific information. I suppose all I can do now is hope my own guild leader is doing his diligence in participating.

Thank you.
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