Discussion about what constitutes a camp and how to hold a camp

[Canelek]

Also:

Ya know, there are a lot of good camps out there. If someone sees fit to rule-lawyer, that is their choice and right.

That said, it seems rather childish, trite and mememe-ish, dontcha think? I mean, sure, if Group A members are being jerks, but why bother normally? People are generally decent elfhobbits on this server.

Common sense and communication are helpful if you aren't an insane person. Of course, I've seen level 60 folks murdering level 25 hobbit wall-walkers for 10pp/kill, so there is certainly a P99 segment that sucks down too many welfare meds to earn pixelfunds so...

[MagpieRockyl]

if jude law cucked me i would understand.

I would be upset and feel threatened. but i wwould understand

[kaluppo]

Good thread. I had wondered about this ever since I was challenged for upper bear pits camp in permafrost. There are nine mobs that everyone kills at the camp. The way I would do it is kill the first two bears, then the two mobs behind them, then the three mobs by the stairs and finally two of the three wolves in the back room (most people don't kill the third because it does not agro and cannot be pulled with any spells).

Now at this point I am usually 20m and need to med up before I am ready to rinse and repeat. So I sit at the spot where the two bears that started the cycle will re-pop. They usually re-pop when I am about 60m. I need to be FM so I sit and stare at them for a few minutes until I get to FM and then I clear the camp again.

But that few minutes of medding when the two bears have re-popped always made me wonder if anyone could come and pull them right in front of me. I guess the answer is maybe yes and maybe no depending on the GM's mood that day :P

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally I've never seen that "1-3 minutes" figured specified anywhere. AFAIK the amount of time is entirely up to whichever GM answers the petition (although it will probably be in that general ballpark).

I've never seen 1-3 minutes written anywhere either. That's just my own personal opinion on the play nice etiquette as the bare minimum. If someone jumps a camp in a minute I would consider that out of line.

Solo people don't have less rights, but they certainly don't have more either. In general, everyone on the server gets to claim one spawn point, period, end of story. You can absolutely camp more than that if no one wants them, but the moment anyone else wants one of those mobs you get one (of your choice), they get one (their choice of what's left) and the rest are FTE (first to engage).

So yes they can walk right up and take not just one but two spawns ... but whoever was there first gets to keep the Heiro spawn (or whichever one they prefer). This would be true even if it was a single person or duo who walked up and not a group.

As for the rest of your question, it again falls into the "its up to the staff" category. They can choose to call Crypt one camp, and say your group of 2, or 3, or whatever can hold that whole camp. Or they can decide that you have two (or three) people so you can hold two (or three) spawn points. Again, AFAK there is no official definition of what is/isn't a camp, and therefore nothing specifies which way the staff has to rule.

Here's what I can't understand. Solo people don't have more or less rights than groups. Then why can groups run around camps and not maintain presence right on top of their spawn points yet still claim ownership of the camp yet solo people can't also run from different spawn points and hold down multiple mobs in camps? If solo people have equal rights, why can't a soloer call duke from hiero room but a group can call emp from crypt room?

Personally I think any further rules clarification would be good ... but then again I don't have to host a server with thousands of assholes like myself on it, and then get a bunch of my friends to volunteer their time to manage it. If I did I'd probably be more sympathetic to their point of view, ie. that specifying 3, 4, or any specific number of minutes would remove their ability to adjust rulings on the fly, which is something they need to be able to "babysit" this server properly.

I do agree on all of this. It's easy for me to add my 2 cents in from my limited experience. I'm talking from longer camps but waiting 3-4 minutes on lets say 6 minute camps is excessive and wouldn't work. I do understand their need for flexibility.

[fastboy21]

People tend not to like solo farmers that monopolize content when a group wants to do the same thing. It has nothing to do with rights or rules, its a community / EQ player culture.

Its just the nature of the EQ beast: folks generally don't like solo farmers that play in popular "group" areas. It was largely the same way on live too.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then why can groups run around camps and not maintain presence right on top of their spawn points yet still claim ownership of the camp yet solo people can't also run from different spawn points and hold down multiple mobs in camps?

Soloers can absolutely run around leaving their camp behind, as long as they get back in time. As I said about Droga, you can kill the Chief, run to the other end of the zone, possibly kill the Soothsayer (if he's unclaimed) and run back. It wouldn't matter if a full group of players had all been waiting at the chief camp the entire time you were gone: as long as you got back before the Chief spawns it's still your camp.

Where it gets murky is what happens if you come back after your camp respawns. This certainly should encourage people who are eager to snipe someone else's camp to wait a more than reasonable amount of time before taking over, because their "reasonable amount of time" might not be the same as a GM's.

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If solo people have equal rights, why can't a soloer call duke from hiero room but a group can call emp from crypt room?

Technically the crypt group can't. Let's say a group calls CE, goes to the crypt, finishes it off, and starts walking over to Emp, but at that moment another group logs in outside the Emp room and goes inside first. That group gets the Emp, because it doesn't matter what the Crypt group may have called, the login group was the First to Engage the unclaimed Emp.

Or at least, if you assume the staff would consider C and E as separate camps. You never know for sure. Anyhow, the important thing is, 99.9% of the time no one else wants Emp, so that's why everyone calls both C and E at once.

The other issue is the one person, one camp principle. Like I said before, GMs define indoor camps however they want, so there doesn't have to be a one player to one named ratio ... but even if there was, a group of 6 can claim 6 of the 7 CE spawns, and no one else wants the 7th mob.

So even by the most lawyerly count, a group of six players can claim 6 mobs and then FTE the (unwanted) 7th. But you as a solo player can only claim one spawn (Heiro). You can kill Duke or anything else while your Heiro is respawning, but only if no one else has claimed it and you engage first.

... again, as I understand things.

[Teppler]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can no one truly claim north in howling stones if they are soloing? Can a group come in and take over?

You're trying to extrapolate an answer to a specific question, to which you want a certain answer, by asking questions that aren't relevant.

Yes, someone solo'ing can probably claim the named in HS north. No, a group probably can't come in and take over. Howling Stones north isn't Sebilis crypt (no matter how much you want it to be).

The rules don't exist so that folks can get away with doing things that are against the spirit of the rules.

This is why the rules are left general and GMs are given the latitude to examine situations on a case by case basis, use precedent, and apply the general principles of the rules.

[Wonkie]

please don't teach teppler how to steal camps

[Foxplay]

When I solo farm I don't go to zones that are popular with groups

Not because I can't make a profit in those zones...

It's cause I'm not a dick... Why bother getting 6ppl mad at me on a daily basis when there is other things I can do that won't pee in anyone elses Cheerios.