"Need before greed"

[Kalamurv]

Hazek you have a seriously messed up and completely wrong idea about what the "need" in NBG is. It doesn't mean you need the plat from the item or anything else, it means its an upgrade that you can equip on that character. Greed is rolling on an item you are going to sell, give to a twink / friend / your whore....whatever.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hazek you have a seriously messed up and completely wrong idea about what the "need" in NBG is. It doesn't mean you need the plat from the item or anything else, it means its an upgrade that you can equip on that character. Greed is rolling on an item you are going to sell, give to a twink / friend / your whore....whatever.

Read my posts and try to use your brain.

[Kalamurv]

I did read your posts, and unfortunately you are the one not using your brain. You seem to think that because you believe your definition of 'need' is the one that should be accepted, where you are in the minority.

[Reddarok]

NBG is a simple concept, can you use it or not and is it an upgrade. Those are the only components in that idea. Dont try to overthink it, you're not that smart or the first person to think of platinum conversion. You're just arrogant enough. Either the group agrees to it or does not, end of thread.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did read your posts, and unfortunately you are the one not using your brain. You seem to think that because you believe your definition of 'need' is the one that should be accepted, where you are in the minority.

Its a logical fact that trading for an item you can use is the same as equipping the original. Yet some people are too dumb to understand that utterly simple concept.

That's why its hypocritically greedy to say, "no you cant roll on it cause you can't equip it" because you're literally denying that person an item they can equip through exchange.

And yet those are the kind of people who invoke "need before greed" even though its backwards.

[vossiewulf]

Originally Posted by Hazek [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a logical fact that trading for an item you can use is the same as equipping the original. Yet some people are too dumb to understand that utterly simple concept.

No Hazek, we follow your logic, we just don't agree that it's correct. The reason being that it treats all these objects as gray boxes with no particular association to any class. If that were true, then your logic would actually work. But it is not true.

What is true is the objects have class associations so if you win the roll on the 500pp words with a mage there, that person will have seen something that they very much need right there and now it's gone. And it may be another 20 hours of camping before one shows up again.

That person will feel from pretty bummed out to like shit. Many would call it a night because this sucks. People who actually feel empathy for others would never consider doing that to someone else. It's not called the Golden Rule without reason.

What I see is people who feel no empathy for others, specifically you and a couple others, and I think that because your logic regularly requires that to be true to work. And the fact that you don't even notice that is also telling.

But at the same time, not everyone who's fine with rolling for everything is ok with it for the same reasons Hazek/Nordok wants it to be the default. Not talking about those people here.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by vossiewulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No Hazek, we follow your logic, we just don't agree that it's correct. The reason being that it treats all these objects as gray boxes with no particular association to any class. If that were true, then your logic would actually work. But it is not true.

What is true is the objects have class associations so if you win the roll on the 500pp words with a mage there, that person will have seen something that they very much need right there and now it's gone. And it may be another 20 hours of camping before one shows up again.

That person will feel from pretty bummed out to like shit. Many would call it a night because this sucks. People who actually feel empathy for others would never consider doing that to someone else. It's not called the Golden Rule without reason.

What I see is people who feel no empathy for others, specifically you and a couple others, and I think that because your logic regularly requires that to be true to work. And the fact that you don't even notice that is also telling.

But at the same time, not everyone who's fine with rolling for everything is ok with it for the same reasons Hazek/Nordok wants it to be the default. Not talking about those people here.

Wanting a fair role on items has nothing to with empathy. And if they were "empathetic" then they would allow other people to roll on it.

I do treat people how I want to be treated, and how they treat me. Because if I were the mage then I would let people roll on it like I already said. Or I would just offer to buy it from them or someone else.

Furthermore, a greedy mage is denying the other people from getting an item they deserve. It makes no difference if they don't get it immediately.

And if they throw a hissy fit cause they didn't win the roll then they're childish and I wouldn't group them after that anyway.

I'm all about being fair and just not catering to people who cry about it or don't understand. Although unfortunately they still exist so i'm forced to deal with them.

[Kalamurv]

Pro tip for you Hazek, when you start a group, or as you join one....(as leader of group forming, you could always decide this for the group), ask what loot rules are (or tell group if you are leader of forming group). A lot of people don't like asking this because they don't want to come across as a greedy whore, but you'll run into far less issues when uberitem_002 drops that so and so wants really bad.

Myself personally I don't care which loot system is used, both have their merits and disadvantages...but when in nbg group, when I win an upgrade I will often, not always but often offer my old piece up for rest of group to random off or pass to someone else that needs.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Kalamurv [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pro tip for you Hazek, when you start a group, or as you join one....(as leader of group forming, you could always decide this for the group), ask what loot rules are (or tell group if you are leader of forming group). A lot of people don't like asking this because they don't want to come across as a greedy whore, but you'll run into far less issues when uberitem_002 drops that so and so wants really bad.

Myself personally I don't care which loot system is used, both have their merits and disadvantages...but when in nbg group, when I win an upgrade I will often, not always but often offer my old piece up for rest of group to random off or pass to someone else that needs.

Yeah I hear you and i've passed on items that I couldn't equip plenty of times even though I could trade it for one I could use. And I agree that you should decide on the rules in the beginning and that it comes down to what the group chooses.

But I needed to make this thread because it always irked me when hypocrites invoke "need before greed" without understanding the reality that its not actually fair for others in the group.

And a smart person would realize that usually politics are more important than facts so if you have no authority then you're better off using idiots to your advantage by agreeing to their rules to prevent them from rolling instead of trying to educate them and getting kicked from the group.

[Wallicker]

Sorry you are poor OP, I can throw you some plat.