Vanguard: SoH

[Brutal_X]

Hey all,

I recently had the itch to look into Vanguard some and to my surprise, I found an emu. Seeing as this game, in my opinion, had the potential to be one of the best MMOs of all time and if holds a very fond place in my heart, I gave the emu a shot. It’s definitely a work in progress, but some of the starter areas are refined and all of the classes work decently well. If nothing else, it’s great to play through for a trip down memory lane.

What does p1999 think of VG? If developers were able to obtain the source code and then go on to iron out the kinks the game had and finish content, would you play again?

[loramin]

Wasn't it like an incomplete game on release? I never played it, but did it get more complete by the time it died, or did it die incomplete?

[Brutal_X]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasn't it like an incomplete game on release? I never played it, but did it get more complete by the time it died, or did it die incomplete?

My understanding is that, no, it was never finished completely and there were a few zones in the baffling massive world that didn’t get some love. The game is super nostalgic for me in any case and it feels almost like an elder scrolls game in its play and scale. One of the very few MMOs where I enjoy solo play and interacting with the massive world and exploring just as much as I do grouping.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Brutal_X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What does p1999 think of VG? If developers were able to obtain the source code and then go on to iron out the kinks the game had and finish content, would you play again?

I have my original copy on the shelf. While there are some similarities between original EQ and V:SOH I would have to pass, can burn hours away in EQ but not in V.

TLDR: Doesn't have that certain something.

[Brutal_X]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have my original copy on the shelf. While there are some similarities between original EQ and V:SOH I would have to pass, can burn hours away in EQ but not in V.

TLDR: Doesn't have that certain something.

I think EQ is the same with me sometimes. I definitely was more immersed in the world of VG. It seems much larger and some of the dungeons are totally massive. It’s also really neat because there are very few sources of information or databases out there to refer to. Everything feels mysterious and new. That’s a feeling I’m looking forward to with Pantheon when/if it comes out.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Brutal_X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s also really neat because there are very few sources of information or databases out there to refer to. Everything feels mysterious and new. That’s a feeling I’m looking forward to with Pantheon when/if it comes out.

Can appreciate that.

[JurisDictum]

where's this location in game? :P

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early qeynos version?

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Brutal_X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What does p1999 think of VG? If developers were able to obtain the source code and then go on to iron out the kinks the game had....

I suspect you greatly under-estimate the enormity of the scope of Vanguard's problems. There's no fixing it, not without starting from scratch with a fresh engine. Everything about that game was broken to some degree or another. The best you can hope for is getting it so most systems work tolerably well most of the time and let the players understand that playing Vanguard means accepting a fair quantity of bugs and glitches.

The emulator has been in the works for a long time, pretty much since VG shut down. It's not a great game for emulation: In addition to the many client problems that aren't going to be fixed, the game's scope is utterly massive and it's simply too much work for a modest-size volunteer team to get everything implemented within a decent timespan (case in point, it's been 6 or 7 years now and it's only partially functional). In some cases data is also lacking making the task even harder.

I liked Vanguard well enough for what it was, but what it was proved a pale shell of what it could and should have been. It's a case study in poor project management and lack of production discipline. I don't think Vanguard ever would have been hugely popular--it was the wrong game at the wrong time, trying to push out during the height of Warcraft's popularity--but with better production I think it could have carved a decent niche for itself, and that would've been good enough.

Danth

[Brutal_X]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I suspect you greatly under-estimate the enormity of the scope of Vanguard's problems. There's no fixing it, not without starting from scratch with a fresh engine. Everything about that game was broken to some degree or another. The best you can hope for is getting it so most systems work tolerably well most of the time and let the players understand that playing Vanguard means accepting a fair quantity of bugs and glitches.

The emulator has been in the works for a long time, pretty much since VG shut down. It's not a great game for emulation: In addition to the many client problems that aren't going to be fixed, the game's scope is utterly massive and it's simply too much work for a modest-size volunteer team to get everything implemented within a decent timespan (case in point, it's been 6 or 7 years now and it's only partially functional). In some cases data is also lacking making the task even harder.

I liked Vanguard well enough for what it was, but what it was proved a pale shell of what it could and should have been. It's a case study in poor project management and lack of production discipline. I don't think Vanguard ever would have been hugely popular--it was the wrong game at the wrong time, trying to push out during the height of Warcraft's popularity--but with better production I think it could have carved a decent niche for itself, and that would've been good enough.

Danth

I certainly agree with you for the most part. As much as I hate the idea, I understand that the game will never be complete or perfectly emulated again. Even if it were, the complete version is still severally buggy and broken and not optimized.

Even then, I still yearn for a game like it. Although flawed, it had absolutely massive potential and was a game I enjoyed many, many hours on... regardless of its flaws. We are all anticipating Pantheon but at this pace, it looks like we won’t see it until 2024 or longer, which is disappointing but understandable given it’s development situation. I really do hope that it’s an amalgamation of EQ, new stuff, and the best from Vanguard. Although niche, I think it has a lot of potential if it follows the proper formula. Nonetheless, I’ll still adventure and explore and test the emu... even if it’s unfinished, flawed, and will likely never complete.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Brutal_X [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Although flawed, it had absolutely massive potential and was a game I enjoyed many, many hours on... regardless of its flaws.

I spent a fair chunk of time on Vanguard as well, enough that I could see and appreciate the game it was supposed to be behind the mountains of glitches and unimplemented features. I liked it in its own right, but its memory will always live in the shadow of what it should have been.

I keep one eye on Pantheon but I don't follow it all that closely. I check up on it a couple times a year or so. Not only is it a long ways off but many of its features are still in a state of flux. It's hard to develop much anticipation for something when it's subject to change. At this stage of my life it might be a moot point; I'm not sure I have the time or inclination to put a lot of effort into starting over on these types of games anymore. I fizzled out on P1999-green (even though I enjoy my established character on "Blue") for much that reason.