It's official: Riot is done.

[dk0]

Originally Posted by condap99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is awesome. Thank you RNF for carrying it to 50 pages

We gonna reach "BDA to Phinny" status with this bitch

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by dk0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Appreciate the response, though I think you may be confusing me with someone else, I've not made any comments about lawyerquesting.

My point is that there are already rules in place that prevent the behavior you're describing. Getting rid of tracker FTE is just the immediate concession portion of the tracker ruleset. They still cannot do literally anything else otherwise it's a concede. Think of it this way: what if the tracker coth'd a single person up who then did the things you describe? How is that any different? If the chaos you're describing were to suddenly happen, why isn't it happening now?

This is RNF so I presume we'll never agree here, but there's no "can of worms" to open. You could drop this rule without any changes to behavior.

why wouldn't they do any of the things, in the absence of a rule requiring immediate concession? that's the only thing discouraging it now, anyways. the underlying point is that as currently implemented, this rule is easy to apply. making it less easy to apply is only going to invite more opportunities for conflict and argument. dropping the rule would just make an already bad atmosphere even worse.

I meant "you" in the general sense, i guess, as opposed to you specifically. apologies if my meaning wasn't clear.

[dk0]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why wouldn't they do any of the things, in the absence of a rule requiring immediate concession?

Because there already exist rules that prevent that behavior and lead to concession. You can easily get around tracker FTE by having a tracker coth up a member and then do these exact same things. But that's not happening, because there are already rules that prevent it. Tracker FTE does nothing to prevent any unwanted behavior that isn't already addressed by a different rule, which makes it unnecessary.

Anyway, never in the history of RNF has someone's perspective actually been changed, and I'm not interested in devolving this convo into whatever is happening in the rest of this ridiculous thread, so I assume this is where we'll just disagree. Appreciate you sharing your view.

[Twochain]

I’d say… 90% of tracker FTEs, if not more are an immediate set back for the guild who got it. As almost every single one of them is, like described above, someone logging in to a guild bot and getting one shotted. If we do away with an immediate concede for that, The only guild who is disadvantaged is the guild who now has to figure out how to coth to that engage or operate with only one mage vs 2.

I brought up good faith because obviously neither kriot nor vanquish show good faith to each other very often. However, it should be something to work towards. Something as simple as an inter guild agreement that if you say ahead of time that your guild is about to log in X, and we aren’t 100% X is in the right spot because it is a guild bot, and if tracker FTE is obtained you do not have to insta concede. It’s that simple.

But that won’t happen. Kriot will claim that it’s another ploy for vanquish to cheat. Vanquish will claim, of course kriot wouldn’t go with an agreement that SHOULD be a no brainer, as it removes a possibility of free mobs for them.

It’s very easy to forget where your toons are. You have to remember that a decent amount of our players have been here for over a decade at this point. There are a lot of people who have double digit amount of level 60 toons that are either theirs, or their retired friends. For instance, I haven’t played twochain nor Feiht since the last time I raided. Which was a week ago. I have literally no idea where twochain was left. If I had to guess. He’s at tov entrance. But he could just as easily be /exited in aary pit. Detox alone probably has fricking over 60 level 60 toons he could log in and raid with at any given time. My rogue is shared with some officers in guilds, and he could literally be anywhere. (The red headed bastard step child that he is). And because some of us rapidly change characters as needed, it’s very easy to leave a toon somewhere hastily to switch to a different target, with the intention of moving it back to entrance later, forgetting in the chaos, and not logging that toon until next cycle, or hell 3 cycles later.

We obviously don’t want to change the meta to something as bergzerg as camping 100 toons at each dragon, but laying out guidelines to not have to insta concede tracker fte should be a no brainer.

While we’re at it, what the hell was the deal with the “there are more guilds than just vanquish on the server” when we offered to let Riot compete against us for otherwise completely free mobs? Okay fine you can claim that we are trying to do away with bag limits, but Jesus Christ come on.. we were trying to show, in good faith, that we’re not just pixel lusting bloodhounds, and that we would rather possibly lose a completely free mob and allow Riot to go compete against us, as for most of us we play this game for the spirit of competition, not the loot. “God” reacts. Really???? Like fuckin really? I don’t even know how that’s a response. Like yeah, we know there’s more than one guild on the server, we’re trying to let them have a chance at something they otherwise wouldn’t be able to touch due to bag limits.

I just don’t respect it. I don’t respect it because when AM was trying to figure out a solution to overcome the insane Zerg meta, Riot WOULDNT budge in the slightest with making changes, because they were coming to monopolize the content. And white knuckled that shit until furor left. Now, the turns have tabled, and look who’s howling to the moon for changes rotations, bag limits and cheating. The conversation than we’re laughed at. Of CoUrsE a DyIng GuIlD WaNtS To MaKE ChANgES. YoU ArE BeInG SeRVeD HuMbLe PiE, HoW DoEs It TaStE??

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Of CoUrsE a DyIng GuIlD WaNtS To MaKE ChANgES. YoU ArE BeInG SeRVeD HuMbLe PiE, HoW DoEs It TaStE??

This. 100x this. Fuck Arcler. Fuck Juicebox. Fuck all the tools that enable them.

[Nexii]

What's to stop a tracker from pulling and gating or capping when a secondary is ready to pick up a legal FTE?

[Ripqozko]

All of this could be solved with lockouts, hope that helps.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’d say… 90% of tracker FTEs, if not more are an immediate set back for the guild who got it. As almost every single one of them is, like described above, someone logging in to a guild bot and getting one shotted. If we do away with an immediate concede for that, The only guild who is disadvantaged is the guild who now has to figure out how to coth to that engage or operate with only one mage vs 2.

I brought up good faith because obviously neither kriot nor vanquish show good faith to each other very often. However, it should be something to work towards. Something as simple as an inter guild agreement that if you say ahead of time that your guild is about to log in X, and we aren’t 100% X is in the right spot because it is a guild bot, and if tracker FTE is obtained you do not have to insta concede. It’s that simple.

But that won’t happen. Kriot will claim that it’s another ploy for vanquish to cheat. Vanquish will claim, of course kriot wouldn’t go with an agreement that SHOULD be a no brainer, as it removes a possibility of free mobs for them.

It’s very easy to forget where your toons are. You have to remember that a decent amount of our players have been here for over a decade at this point. There are a lot of people who have double digit amount of level 60 toons that are either theirs, or their retired friends. For instance, I haven’t played twochain nor Feiht since the last time I raided. Which was a week ago. I have literally no idea where twochain was left. If I had to guess. He’s at tov entrance. But he could just as easily be /exited in aary pit. Detox alone probably has fricking over 60 level 60 toons he could log in and raid with at any given time. My rogue is shared with some officers in guilds, and he could literally be anywhere. (The red headed bastard step child that he is). And because some of us rapidly change characters as needed, it’s very easy to leave a toon somewhere hastily to switch to a different target, with the intention of moving it back to entrance later, forgetting in the chaos, and not logging that toon until next cycle, or hell 3 cycles later.

We obviously don’t want to change the meta to something as bergzerg as camping 100 toons at each dragon, but laying out guidelines to not have to insta concede tracker fte should be a no brainer.

While we’re at it, what the hell was the deal with the “there are more guilds than just vanquish on the server” when we offered to let Riot compete against us for otherwise completely free mobs? Okay fine you can claim that we are trying to do away with bag limits, but Jesus Christ come on.. we were trying to show, in good faith, that we’re not just pixel lusting bloodhounds, and that we would rather possibly lose a completely free mob and allow Riot to go compete against us, as for most of us we play this game for the spirit of competition, not the loot. “God” reacts. Really???? Like fuckin really? I don’t even know how that’s a response. Like yeah, we know there’s more than one guild on the server, we’re trying to let them have a chance at something they otherwise wouldn’t be able to touch due to bag limits.

I just don’t respect it. I don’t respect it because when AM was trying to figure out a solution to overcome the insane Zerg meta, Riot WOULDNT budge in the slightest with making changes, because they were coming to monopolize the content. And white knuckled that shit until furor left. Now, the turns have tabled, and look who’s howling to the moon for changes rotations, bag limits and cheating. The conversation than we’re laughed at. Of CoUrsE a DyIng GuIlD WaNtS To MaKE ChANgES. YoU ArE BeInG SeRVeD HuMbLe PiE, HoW DoEs It TaStE??

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[Nexii]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All of this could be solved with lockouts, hope that helps.

Agree exclusive lock era was way better than this garbage meta where you need 100+ players

[Tunabros]

Anyone able to fill me up on what happened to <Riot>?

Didn't they used to be the most powerful raid guild for a few years? What happened?

And why do they keep lawyer questing and why does Vanquish keep complaining?