Was total BiS a thing during live?

[temp2290]

Originally Posted by White_knight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My guild on Xev was doing Plane of Hate/Fear and dragons like Talendor as their raiding. Talendor was on some rotation system too shared amongst a few guilds.

This was during velious era too.

On Xev I remember there was one super elite guild and it was rumored you couldnt even app unless you had your epic.

For most people I think having Kunark tradeables and a dew raid pieces was as good as it got.

P99 kinda skews the raid scene a ton and I think thats why there are alot of people addicted to raiding here as it simply just wasnt something that 90% of the pop did much off on live.

I knew of the raid zones on live but didnt know anything about them - and tbh never touched VP/Trak/VS/Fay and most of Velious till P99.

I remember doing arena a few times and killing vindi once.

So in short no...the concept of BiS was for a tiny portion of the EQ community. Getting your epic was a BALLER move not running around drippijg in NtoV gear and to be frank most people would have inspected ntov geared toons and had no clue what they were looking at anyhow.

Hi Xev buddy. Yeah I don't even remember anyone saying "BIS" but I was in maybe a top 10 raid guild, not a top one.. Now i enjoy being a newbie, and watching Youtube raids makes me cringe and remember all the drama around raid loot in my guild. No thank you! This server was all about doing things differently to me.

[Myke]

On Bristlebane, not one person was even remotely close to BiS by the end of velious. There were 3 raiding guilds, so there was some competition, but the very best geared had 1-2 vulak loots plus a few ntov pieces. Most hardcore raiders were pretty excited to have 1 or 2 ntov pieces. HoT and Kael armor was common in the raid guilds and having full HoT gear was considered doing well. The sleeper was actually up for a little while, so many people had primals. And even after it was woken guilds continued to farm ST golems.

That said, bristlebane was one of the oldest and most populated servers, so lots of people were in the raid scene

[Ravager]

P99 takes as much skill as a paint by numbers picture. Don't oversell yourselves just because you're exceptionally skilled at staying in the lines.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 takes as much skill as a paint by numbers picture. Don't oversell yourselves just because you're exceptionally skilled at staying in the lines.

Yeah.

Strap in, crank up, press the gas and stay off the walls.

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you're exceptionally skilled at staying in the lines.

That would be a skill though?

Anyway, which PC games require skill? FPS or maybe RTS games? can those be whittled down to a few key things to be repeated by min/maxers. I found the core.

[Mblake81]

MMA is doing some judo chops, working out, getting in a cage and beating the other guy. Paint by numbers as well.

Born, eat, shit, piss, go to school, marry, have a kid.. die. The little line between born and date of death is what the fuss is about.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 takes as much skill as a paint by numbers picture. Don't oversell yourselves just because you're exceptionally skilled at staying in the lines.

Except there are no additional painters to fuck with your progress and there are no consequences to disregarding the numbers altogether or chances of the paint being wiped clean if you stop suddenly at a certain area on the canvas. The only potential risk involves pulling a Van Gogh and consuming the paint.

Playing speed chess and driving a car are better comparisons. You might have a blindspot or two but, while engaged in either, you have a good idea of the possibilities ahead within the agreed upon parameters. If those parameters are ignored, you risk embarrassment in one and injury in the other. Also, with both, it's important to get a feel for the other participants (your opponent/fellow motorists) enough so you can Intuit their next moves and adjust your own as needed.

If the elderly are not challenged by it, than it wasn't designed for you to show off your skills. And it's an insult to the original devs to suggest their game is as easy as paint by numbers. Our adolescent selves died and cursed endlessly at these colors and numbers. The lines weren't so visible then as they are now.

[Keza]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This stigma about admitting that a video game requires skill to be good at is silly. The ability to perform given actions within a video game is patently a skill:

skill
/skil/
Learn to pronounce
noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.

You even spell out how to improve at eq, which is the same way you improve at literally anything, but claim eq takes no skill.

Why are some long time players awful if all it takes is time investment? Why are some new players very effective if they haven't put the time in? Your claim is clearly false.

Saying EQ requires skill nowdays is only correct in the most technical definitions. Anyone who genuinely finds EQ mentally taxing is probably out of their mind or very new to games. I see quite a few people on the forum/game bragging about being high all the time. If you need an explanation for why some people are bad at the game despite time played look no further than the obvious, not to mention alcohol or mental/physical limitations. There's a few super-casuals who never get good at anything they do because their concept of fun is different from the norm, just like your concept of skill is different from the norm.

His explanation of how to get better wasn't meant as instruction, clearly. It was implying that anyone 'good' at EQ is only 'good' at it because dumping a thousand hours into a simple game is the only way to get full BiS, not that you poured hours into improving at the game like you would CS/SC/R6/RL/whatever. The things you cite as skill are evident of your skewed outlook. I'd define leveling in certain zones and knowing how to do certain things as game knowledge more than skill. That's exaggerating the content of the game drastically to say remembering timers or knowing what mobs spawn where is skill.

All that said games do take skill and EQ was much more difficult way back when we were all morons, but how long ago was it that the average person was illiterate? That doesn't make reading a difficult skill. Everything is relative to average intelligence. Playing EQ right now is incredibly simple and not something to be proud about, not that anyone should feel ashamed at playing something they enjoy either. Unless it's Monster Girl Island.

On-topic: Not really. Only leaders/officers/MTs of top-tier guilds would have even had a chance to get full BiS. It's taking you so long because the only thing keeping a lot of raiders playing is a combination of gearing up alts and the inability to let go of their pixels and be free.

[Danth]

Thread got a little hijacked, but that's alright. I agree with Tecmos: There's plenty of difficulty and associated learning curve/skill to be found in-game, if the player looks for it. The raider folks who like to be carried by their guilds are extremely obvious, because that's typically a mind-numbing activity: Log in when told, group up as ordered, /assist when told, collect loot. It's also far from all there is to do in-game, although it's just about all many of those types of players do (aside from leveling up more alts in their usual experience-highway zones) since they're quite often interested only in pixels rather than interesting gameplay. EQ's an open-ended game and in many cases it is what the player makes it, so different players end up with wildly different experiences from nominally the same game.

---------------------------------------------

In the original game there wasn't long enough periods between expansions for very many players to achieve full or near-full "best in slot." Players certainly talked about it and drooled over high-end loot, as can be readily seen by reading 2000/2001-era comments on old database websites like allakhazam.

Danth

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 takes as much skill as a paint by numbers picture. Don't oversell yourselves just because you're exceptionally skilled at staying in the lines.

It's not about bragging. It's about objective, plain-as-day definition of the word "skill."

Some folks can't come to terms with what the word means, maybe because they can't accept that doing X in a video game isn't PURELY a function of nolife time invested. Maybe something else. But yeah, whatever the reasoning, there's no legit arguing that doing something well in p99 isn't a skill.

Does it take more skill to hit a 95 mph fastball, fence in the Olympics, write a bestseller, stalk a trophy whitetail, or do small engine repair? Probably. But that's not relevant to whether p99 involves a level of skill.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Keza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I see quite a few people on the forum/game bragging about being high all the time.

Save was high a lot. While soloing hs south before anyone else did it (let alone demonstrated it all on videos), in mediocre gear. I'm sure that was all just luck right? It clearly couldn't have been time invested -> success cause he was doing that shit years ago when a lot of mother fuckers still die a bunch trying to do north in present day after years of experience with p99.