most underpowered class in game?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Amazing how you always ignore everything and just use statements like this. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]



Obviously I know they don't always hold for full duration (unless the level difference and/or resist debuff is large enough). But you can simply spam Root. With lull you only get a chance to use it before combat. Something "going wrong" with lull (either a critical resist or other adds) means the skill has lost all of its value. Whereas with root, you get to constantly reapply. Root is a much better ability.

You can spam lull too, since high CHA makes crit failure pretty minimal. And you can always root after a crit fail!

You just need to get more comfortable with lulling. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't make root better.

It's a silly argument to say "because lull can fail, it's bad", considering root can fail too.

Lull is useful even after a mob has agroed you btw. You can lull the mob and then memory blur it. Then it will reset, like the crit fail never even happened.

[Zuranthium]

Your inability to understand concepts never ceases.

1.) Root and Lull are separate abilities. We were discussing which one is the stronger ability. If you could only pick one to have in the game, which would be stronger? Root is the winner (and that's even with Lull being buffed on p99).

2.) Memory blur is yet another ability, which few classes have. Paladins do not have it. So no, they can't use Lull like that (and you're also assuming mem blur would work first try, and the other lull attempt). Your premise is incorrect to begin with, because you can't simply lull and memory blur multiple MOBs that are already beating on you. It's inherently going to be multiple MOBs, not just one, since the failed Lull means you are pulling extra.

3.) "You can always root after critical fail" means more mana has been spent and time has been lost (probably resulting in taking more damage).

4.) "Root can fail too", NO it can't fail in the same way, because you get to re-cast it immediately. Root breaking can be a setback, but likely a correctable one, and often meaning nothing except needing to spend 30 mana to re-root. Lull failing means you've completely lost the advantage you were trying to get.

5.) I never said Lull is strictly bad on p99. Rather, it's not much needed for typical groups with the existence of Root.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your inability to understand concepts never ceases.

1.) Root and Lull are separate abilities. We were discussing which one is the stronger ability. If you could only pick one to have in the game, which would be stronger? Root is the winner (and that's even with Lull being buffed on p99).

2.) Memory blur is yet another ability, which few classes have. Paladins do not have it. So no, they can't use Lull like that (and you're also assuming mem blur would work first try, and the other lull attempt). Your premise is incorrect to begin with, because you can't simply lull and memory blur multiple MOBs that are already beating on you. It's inherently going to be multiple MOBs, not just one, since the failed Lull means you are pulling extra.

3.) "You can always root after critical fail" means more mana has been spent and time has been lost (probably resulting in taking more damage).

4.) "Root can fail too", NO it can't fail in the same way, because you get to re-cast it immediately. Root breaking can be a setback, but likely a correctable one, and often meaning nothing except needing to spend 30 mana to re-root. Lull failing means you've completely lost the advantage you were trying to get.

5.) I never said Lull is strictly bad on p99. Rather, it's not much needed for typical groups with the existence of Root.

I understand what you are saying perfectly fine. You simply haven't lulled enough, which is why you are using root as a crutch. Both are great spells. The only person making a silly argument is yourself trying to convince people lull isn't that great on P99.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand what you are saying perfectly fine. You simply haven't lulled enough, which is why you are using root as a crutch. Both are great spells. The only person making a silly argument is yourself trying to convince people lull isn't that great on P99.

He's not wrong for his specific qualifier of normal groups. Lot of experience groups don't bother splitting at all these days. Folks who like the leveling game and spend a lot of time in that sort of grouping might thus devalue such abilities. Obviously splitting is a "little bit" more important when you're trying to pull something out of a 5-pull that, together, will kill you faster than you can cast the needed roots even if they'll all stick.

That being said, paladins definitely do use lull to get around places like sebilis and velketor on P99. I've played my own and watched other paladins pull with it for hours on end without a single fail. It surely makes that class more effective with than it would be without. Classic or not, that's the game we're logging on to. It's also not something that ranks ALL that high in my estimates of character power because between lulls and harmony it's not all that rare an ability, not to mention other methods of splitting like feign. Some means of splitting isn't really all that much less common than root itself is.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's not wrong for his specific qualifier of normal groups. Lot of experience groups don't bother splitting at all these days. Folks who like the leveling game and spend a lot of time in that sort of grouping might thus devalue such abilities. Obviously splitting is a "little bit" more important when you're trying to pull something out of a 5-pull that, together, will kill you faster than you can cast the needed roots even if they'll all stick.

That being said, paladins definitely do use lull to get around places like sebilis and velketor on P99. I've played my own and watched other paladins pull with it for hours on end without a single fail. It surely makes that class more effective with than it would be without. Classic or not, that's the game we're logging on to. It's also not something that ranks ALL that high in my estimates of character power because between lulls and harmony it's not all that rare an ability, not to mention other methods of splitting like feign. Some means of splitting isn't really all that much less common than root itself is.

Danth

I understand that XP groups these days don't bother splitting. In a situation where groups can just pull in 5 mobs and mow them down, even root really isn't that necessary. Your group is just too good for the content. So it is a poor example, because neither spell is necessary.

Lull is necessary in harder areas where you cannot do that, and it superior to root when splitting. Both are great spells. Again, the only person arguing against any spell here is Z. He doesn't seem to like lull.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand that XP groups these days don't bother splitting. In a situation where groups can just pull in 5 mobs and mow them down, even root really isn't that necessary. Your group is just too good for the content. So it is a poor example, because neither spell is necessary.

Lull is necessary in harder areas where you cannot do that, and it superior to root when splitting. Both are great spells. Again, the only person arguing against any spell here is Z. He doesn't seem to like lull.

This is a really bad statement.

Just because a group can mow down mobs doesn’t mean root isn’t necessary lol. This could easily be a quick wipe without root. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times.

I have a 60 enc, root is good 95% of the time. Lull is more for niche stuff.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a really bad statement.

Just because a group can mow down mobs doesn’t mean root isn’t necessary lol. This could easily be a quick wipe without root. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times.

I have a 60 enc, root is good 95% of the time. Lull is more for niche stuff.

Its not a bad statement. Its true. I have been in plenty of xp groups where root wasn't necessary lol.

The niche stuff is what matters. if you can just use root for a situation it is an easy situation anyway.

[Zuranthium]

Why do you respond to literally every person by ignoring what they say and inserting some strawman statement?

If you pull 5 MOBs, splitting them up with Root is great. It doesn't matter if you *could* beat them without Rooting, the fact is you will save FAR more mana by using root, as you won't need to heal all that extra damage. The aggro management function of Root (force the MOB to always hit your tank) is also very powerful.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you can just use root for a situation it is an easy situation anyway.

Wrong, you can split many difficult camps and handle difficult adds with Root, or use the Root + camp method to move through areas. The more roots in your party, the easier it becomes too. Coordinate everyone casting root at the same time on different targets to split a dense camp.

Lull is rarely needed to split a camp. It might make things a degree easier, but rarely is it *needed*. More for dungeon soloing than other modes of gameplay.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You simply haven't lulled enough

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[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you respond to literally every person by ignoring what they say and inserting some strawman statement?

I am not doing that at all. You simply keep claiming "straw man" at everything you disagree with because it's easy. You need to learn what fallacies are.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you pull 5 MOBs, splitting them up with Root is great. It doesn't matter if you *could* beat them without Rooting, the fact is you will save FAR more mana by using root, as you won't need to heal all that extra damage. The aggro management function of Root (force the MOB to always hit your tank) is also very powerful.

If you can pull 5 mobs, have them beat on you, and nothing bad happens, the encounter is easy.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wrong, you can split many difficult camps and handle difficult adds with Root, or use the Root + camp method to move through areas. The more roots in your party, the easier it becomes too. Coordinate everyone casting root at the same time on different targets to split a dense camp.

If you can pull X mobs, have them beat on you, and nothing bad happens, the encounter is easy. If you can kite the mobs around while waiting for root to land, the encounter is easy. If you can root camp a mob consistently due to it having low resists, the encounter is easy.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lull is rarely needed to split a camp. It might make things a degree easier, but rarely is it *needed*. More for dungeon soloing than other modes of gameplay.

Sure, most camps in EQ are indeed easy. Lull is there for the camps that matter, and is superior to root when the encounters are not so easy. Otherwise they can both be used for the same purpose just fine.

Again, I think both spells are great. You are the one who thinks lull isn't great, which is strange.

[Knuckle]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's clearly Wizard. There are very little redeeming qualities to this class other than being raid DPS.

Horrible DPS in groups that is outpaced even by the knights. Mediocre soloing that is dependant upon SOME gear. Negligible utility other than mobilisation and evacuation.

They're so terribly designed, I have no idea what Verant was thinking.

They are great at quad kiting.