Warriors are useless in 90% of the games content

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root definitely is the same aggro as stun. I don't think it was before the recent aggro patch.

Spells don't need to land to give full aggro either, and didn't take hold / mob is immune to changes in runspeed still give full aggro too.



I would also like to hear a monk who parsed it weigh in. My bet is FoN+Gharns dps is below an Abashi's but comfortably above a Tstaff.

thats correct except bo staff is really right there too for cheap asf dkp.

[Arvan]

op revealing he's bad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is root aggro really the same as stun? I don't think it is but admittedly I could be mistaken. It should be 160 threat from the DD component with the side benefit of granting aggro after proc to whomever is standing closest ... if it lands. It's a 3 minute duration but can break early by chance or whenever the enemy is nuked. If it doesn't land ... no root perk. If you are correct and root generates the same flat 400 threat that stun does ... well FON would be a massive aggro hog indeed.

From a DPS standpoint, the *new damage bonus tables along with the dynamic of monks triple attacking with their main hand weapon should work out such that TStaff should be comparable to the best raid monk dual wield setups out there .. including fist of nature. Perhaps a raid geared monk could weigh in? I'd parse it but I don't have the weapons. BotB monk DPS at the raid level are gonna be the ToV 2handers, but none of them have a threat proc.

I've done a decent amount of puppet show with Teslacoil, who has a FoN/Fist of Lightning setup. I can confirm that he has no problems holding aggro from me running a Tunare daggger/epic setup. Not sure how that would compare to TStaff though.

I know a few monks that are definitely using Facesmasher/Abashi's/Shovel, I might be able to find some parses that have both of them on it for comparison. I'm not sure he's always running FoN on raid targets though due to aggro problems.

[Troxx]

If root aggro is truly the same as stubble then by far best tradable warrior threat setup is

https://wiki.project1999.com/Herbalist%27s_Spade

[Jimjam]

But then you need to do an archaeology/gardener/gravedigger theme toon which really limits the most thematic deity selections…

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bingo. Higher or lower strength will not affect how often you riposte. A riposte is simply an extra potential swing at standard damage tables. If the only different variable is strength, ripostes don't matter from one parse set (Gamparse set) to the other from a comparison standpoint. Assuming you have sufficiently long parses or a robust enough compilation of individual fights ... riposte rates will average out over time.

You are correct that STR doesn't affect riposte rate. That isn't my point, nor did I make that claim. If you have 15 ripostes in fight A with 200 STR, and 5 ripostes in fight B with 230 STR, your DPS has been skewed on the fight with 200 STR, because you got more hits in Fight A than fight B. That is why it is important to screen out variables like ripostes when looking at DPS specifically. You also want to check if the mob dodged/parried/riposted more in one fight than the other, because that also affects DPS. You are incorrect that things like ripostes do not affect parse sets. This is especially true when we have seen STR generally doesn't provide an extremely large bonus to DPS. When the difference is only a few DPS, that can easily be skewed by other factors like riposte.

I have had long parses where there were significantly more ripostes in one data set as opposed to the other. Eventually everything evens out over a long enough time, but that doesn't mean it will even out in the data sets you have.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When investigating the impact of strength on damage looking at damage per hit removes more variables than looking at dps, especially as Dps can be extrapolated as a factor on damage per hit.

Looking at damage per hit you don’t need to worry about variance in hit rate, parries, blocks, dodges, ripostes, etc. As such ripostes actually just give extra data points rather than taint the data.

If you want to do this you need the logs instead of a DPS parse. That is why I ask for logs instead of parses. You can use the data from logs in multiple ways.

[Jimjam]

Dps parsers can also draw distribution charts of hit amounts, calculate average hits and all sorts of other wonderful things as well as simply parse dps. While your home grown solutions are cool and doubtlessly appropriately effective, you're really missing out by not trying out gamparse. Maybe run it on a VM if you are too worried about malware?

[Zuranthium]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just one thing, even war are better off with 2h for dps now . Which knights would also use. If ya dpsing you shouldn’t be dual wielding it’s worse dps.

You're misunderstanding; when I said dual wield, I mean swapping to an offhand weapon inbetween 2-hander swings. Paladins lose a lot of DPS compared to an ideally played Warrior/Ranger/Monk because of not having dual wield (plus all the other reasons).

Paladins between some attack swings should swap to shield to get bashes in, but it's such a tiny DPS addition, really not even an "addition", just the baseline of getting to use their attack skill that most other melee always get to use.

Shadowknights are the most easymode, they never need to swap (when playing one of the slam races). Their additional pet DPS makes me prefer them over Paladins on average. Incidentally, in 1999 SK's were the best melee DPS, aside from certain raid situations, because of the pet attacking much faster when given low delay weapons.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dps parsers can also draw distribution charts of hit amounts, calculate average hits and all sorts of other wonderful things as well as simply parse dps. While your home grown solutions are cool and doubtlessly appropriately effective, you're really missing out by not trying out gamparse. Maybe run it on a VM if you are too worried about malware?

It's not about malware. I simply know that programs have bugs in them (especially freeware), and I don't really care enough to vet Gameparse. It's easy enough to do it yourself, and you remove any factors that can skew the data.

Any bugs that are present may affect your outcomes, and you have no way of knowing unless you are able to debug Gameparse specifically.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're misunderstanding; when I said dual wield, I mean swapping to an offhand weapon inbetween 2-hander swings. Paladins lose a lot of DPS compared to an ideally played Warrior/Ranger/Monk because of not having dual wield (plus all the other reasons).

There is at max 1 person (you) out there doing this.