Your ideal red server setup

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

rallos zek item loot pvp

firona vie has no no drop items

Id vote against that then because i have thicker skin than 95% of modern MMO players id say (i played eve, wow classic pvp, albion online, darkfall) and i dont think i could roll with getting my shit stripped by zergs regularly. Thats a deal breaker even for me. I wouldnt even start playing on such a setup. In albion online, you have like wardrobes of gear waiting to be replaced in storage, like stacks of chests, boots, etc... This isnt the case with EQ.

This is why i would be pushing for item loot only with the no drop sets tweak, to modernize/QoL it a bit so its more palatable to at least a good amount of people. This would make it more like Eve online, where you "fly" your best shit only when you are out with the guild. AKA only fly what you can afford to lose.

That and a no level limit pvp server where starting out a level 40 can one-shot you, those are the setups i can think of where i would probably not even waste my time starting to play on the server.

You could put these servers online but im pretty sure it would be a niche setup and right from the start you wouldnt attract numbers.

[Gustoo]

1. Rallos zek actual classic server (for fucks sake) zero customization as classic (live) as possible.
2. Nilbog 2 teams - Only customization being starting zones and non classic hard coded teams
3. Discord (permadeath, seasons) vanilla only - no customization/deviation from live except the live version had LDON era noob quests enabled and shit (blackened alloy and stuff, no era correctness) which we would not have

I really don't like to fantasize about custom servers anymore, but if it came to customization it would be a rallos rules with customized no-drop system like Tradesonred has mentioned. I would say there should be no custom items because that just isn't gunna happen, but customized droppability, and level requirements.

Anything that can be used for twinking will be droppable.
Anything that is good and no drop, will have level requirements.
Maybe make Sol-Ro armor quest items all no-drop, with a level requirement equivilent to the level that those quests are actually achievable without having out of level range assistance, like level 30.

Level 1-29 would be banded for melees. Trash for casters.

Possibly make it so player crafted armor and jewelry can be no drop enabled somehow once equipped. Makes crafting worth doing even if the stuff is kinda crappy. That could also remove the need to make sol ro temple gear no-drop.

A lot of high level gear would be made droppable to make it dangerous.

This would be especially important in the kunark and velious eras.


And in all renditions of all future servers there should no longer be "legacy items" with planned "no longer dropping" dates, because it creates an entirely unique to project 1999 shitty ass progression server, where the only progression that REALLY matters is spending the appropriate amount of time acquiring the appropriate amount of "legacy items" before they progressively stop dropping in the game. For everything else you have 10 years to get it. It's also purely custom, where egg shaped pumice was not added into the game and available to purchase from vendors for a specific amount of time, and probably other stupid stuff. If we like manastones and we like lockets of escape, lets implement them into the game in a way that is actually like the classic game instead of totally unclassically including them in NEW servers, that was never done by LIVE. The simplest solution is a casino vendor that mostly just eats plat but offers some of these items as rewards. This eliminates the inflation problem in a long term server, and means people can actually quest classically in the vanilla era.

Because the no-brainer race to level 50 and spend as much time getting manastones as possible because you can then buy every other item in the game by just logging out for 5 years is just the worst mechanic in any game.

[DRAGONBAIT]

About the training : it happened in pvp servers back in the day, it happened in pve servers back in the day (even more than in pvp ) and it will happen again, in a pvp environment i think its easier to just allow people to deal with it.

About item loot : with all my respects u guys are delusionall, do u want a new eq classic pvp server in the near future wich is populated? you need to catter more to the blue playerbase, item loot is a deal breaker even for many pvpers. This is everquest, wake up.

About teams : honestly, its been pointed out, long story short, safer environment to lvl up and get into pvp for newer players. U will have an end game raid scene full of training and ganking zerging and pvp, and u will have a "lvling up" scene with a less toxic and safer pvp environment wich would be fun, like it was back in the day.

edit : Things i remember was shorties coming to gfay and cb and there would be so much fun even at lvls 8, 9 10 being an elf and having to fight those shorties grps wich were coming, lots of elfs joined to help, good times.
As a dark elf i remember the newbie log, and from time to time people would shout "LIGHTIES IN ZONE" wich meant some humans from freeport came looking for a fight, again darkies would team up and fight the invaders. This low lvl pvp situations were so much fun, u could almost choose to pvp or not, u could choose to go to another races zone or to just defend ur safer racial areas, it was fun, it was awesome. Then u lvl up and joined raid scene and high end pvp for raid targets but that lower lvl enviroment, if populated, was just so much fun and cant happen in a FFA.


About custom : Teams was a classic thing, no need to custom anything, keep it classic with minimum interference.

TLDR : if we want a thriving pvp eq classic server somewhere in the future with a healthy playerbase we need to wake up and forget about exp loss, item loot and other features that make it more hardcore. Everquest is hardcore on its core, just having the possibility of fighting another guild/player for wathever reason, test ur characters power, its more than enough to enjoy eq pvp and what most people look for, U spend hours gearing and leveling ur character and even the most blue player want to measure his strengh, an eq red server is not happening cos its not been envisioned correctly. Exp loss was an 80IQ move ( or something else ) We need players, think out of ur box come on.

[Kohedron]

I see a whole lot of not classic

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and i dont think i could roll with getting my shit stripped by zergs regularly.

sorry i got your warder loot (zerg guilds would be at the disadvantage with FV loot rules btw)

we cant have item loot on p99 anyway though for reasons that are obvious if you think about it.

you need to catter more to the blue playerbase, item loot is a deal breaker even for many pvpers. This is everquest, wake up.

green is about to be deleted... People are learning pixels are fleeting. Live players get this

the problem with eq pvp is that people think their items matter, and they do not. The best PVPers part and parcel are not in the zerg item guilds, theyre in the pvp guilds.. and if there is no reason to zerg, then the bluebies will join those guilds instead of the zerg ones.

if you build it (rallos zek + FV loot) they will come

(but we cant because of obvious reasons)

[Old_PVP]

Originally Posted by DRAGONBAIT [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

About the training : it happened in pvp servers back in the day, it happened in pve servers back in the day (even more than in pvp ) and it will happen again, in a pvp environment i think its easier to just allow people to deal with it.

About item loot : with all my respects u guys are delusionall, do u want a new eq classic pvp server in the near future wich is populated? you need to catter more to the blue playerbase, item loot is a deal breaker even for many pvpers. This is everquest, wake up.

About teams : honestly, its been pointed out, long story short, safer environment to lvl up and get into pvp for newer players. U will have an end game raid scene full of training and ganking zerging and pvp, and u will have a "lvling up" scene with a less toxic and safer pvp environment wich would be fun, like it was back in the day.

edit : Things i remember was shorties coming to gfay and cb and there would be so much fun even at lvls 8, 9 10 being an elf and having to fight those shorties grps wich were coming, lots of elfs joined to help, good times.
As a dark elf i remember the newbie log, and from time to time people would shout "LIGHTIES IN ZONE" wich meant some humans from freeport came looking for a fight, again darkies would team up and fight the invaders. This low lvl pvp situations were so much fun, u could almost choose to pvp or not, u could choose to go to another races zone or to just defend ur safer racial areas, it was fun, it was awesome. Then u lvl up and joined raid scene and high end pvp for raid targets but that lower lvl enviroment, if populated, was just so much fun and cant happen in a FFA.


About custom : Teams was a classic thing, no need to custom anything, keep it classic with minimum interference.

TLDR : if we want a thriving pvp eq classic server somewhere in the future with a healthy playerbase we need to wake up and forget about exp loss, item loot and other features that make it more hardcore. Everquest is hardcore on its core, just having the possibility of fighting another guild/player for wathever reason, test ur characters power, its more than enough to enjoy eq pvp and what most people look for, U spend hours gearing and leveling ur character and even the most blue player want to measure his strengh, an eq red server is not happening cos its not been envisioned correctly. Exp loss was an 80IQ move ( or something else ) We need players, think out of ur box come on.

1000% agree.

Some of my best EQ memories were also lowbie pvp on SZ teams. Defending the zone! or Invading some other team.

We need bluebie players people, this isn't rocket science. Bluebies WON'T do pvp without TEAMS! Period.

[PlsNoBan]

One thing I didn't see mentioned (granted I skimmed) is plugging. My brief stint on red was a non-stop plugfest. If someone wasn't clearly winning they were immediately B-lining to the nearest zoneline and alt f4'ing to avoid YT. I don't know what the best solution is. I don't know how realistic/possible this is to code but maybe something like if you've taken PvP damage in the last 30 seconds you can't zone? I don't know if the server can differentiate pvp damage and pve damage. If not maybe just add an item with an instant clicky you can debuff people with that prevents zoning. Click item on someone and it applies a 30s debuff that prevents zoning. This could be abused to grief but you always have the option of just killing the person debuffing you. It would have to be restricted to +/- 4 levels or whatever so you don't have 60's spam griefing lvl 20s or whatever.

I guess another solution would be to make it so disconnecting mid-zone still sends your character to the other end of the zoneline for ~30 seconds where you could be killed. This could cause some unfortunate situations where you legit DC during a zone and are helplessly murdered on the other side. But I think the trade off of putting a stop to plugging is probably worth it?

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by DRAGONBAIT [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

About the training : it happened in pvp servers back in the day, it happened in pve servers back in the day (even more than in pvp ) and it will happen again, in a pvp environment i think its easier to just allow people to deal with it.

About item loot : with all my respects u guys are delusionall, do u want a new eq classic pvp server in the near future wich is populated? you need to catter more to the blue playerbase, item loot is a deal breaker even for many pvpers. This is everquest, wake up.

If you allow training people will go crazy. This isnt like live, its like a den of snakes. Like i said holocaust cockblocked guk during red's first week even with the no training rule. Youll have some almost-to-the-point-of-shooting-up-a-school social misfit who will make it his life's work to train people 12h a day. That would be as bad as xp loss in pvp with regards to making people quit.

I think item loot, within a game like EQ (where stuff is rarer compared to Albion like mentioned above, less bank space to make it work) will not appeal to much people. Its too harsh. Yeah maybe zergs will not be able to hang on to their warder loot but neither will casuals with their shitty cloth. You need a good amount people to get a decent classic experience instead of a theme park ghost museum. No drop sets are a good idea IMO, with Gustoo's tweak of level Req's but realistically i dont see it happening here. So probably just a repeat of 1.0 but with the major thing that theres no xp loss starting out to bleed the population dry.

Oh and pleasenoban just touched on something i forgot: For a server that prides itself on a classic experience, yellow text was a terrible idea, at least in the way it was implemented. Why on earth would you custom something in that makes it easier for a heavy on the griefy side server to find people to harass? If it must be kept, then remove the zone in which the player is killed at least. Even then its bad cuz if someone was harassing a newb, then the YT is just an alarm that his prey is back online and to log in his alt for some lulz.

For plugging i dont really care. If i was a melee id plug all the time.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For plugging i dont really care. If i was a melee id plug all the time.

That's literally the problem. So would everyone and in my limited experience literally just about everyone did it when they started to lose. It's an extremely lame bullshit mechanic that shouldn't exist. I don't mind people having the option of running away but being able to essentially safely log out of the game whilst being chased in a PvP encounter is insanely stupid. You should always have the ability as the aggressor to chase down your target and reasonably be able to catch them. Barring any class specific mechanics like selos or just running away and gating or whatever.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's literally the problem. So would everyone and in my limited experience literally just about everyone did it when they started to lose. It's an extremely lame bullshit mechanic that shouldn't exist. I don't mind people having the option of running away but being able to essentially safely log out of the game whilst being chased in a PvP encounter is insanely stupid. You should always have the ability as the aggressor to chase down your target and reasonably be able to catch them. Barring any class specific mechanics like selos or just running away and gating or whatever.

Yeah but sometimes you run into 4 people and you just not feeling walking back 3 zones after being stomped with no chance. I said i dont really care. If they found a way to fix it, sure, but meanwhile ill probably be plugging on a melee char with this scenario.