Monk Epic Fist... is it REALLY that good?

[Nordenwatch]

I was soloing HS on my monk and I was thinking about the epic fist. So far I had been using fist/SoS til major shielding and then switch to fist/AC for the stunning blow proc, but I switched to ac/sos and it seems to be better DPS.

I know that the epic fist is ridiculously fast, but if you think about the amount of haste percentage that you have you benefit much more from the haste by having slower weps. So by using AC and having 40% haste from the epic and 27 from the RBG, i have 67% haste. This haste on AC (15/25) makes it 16.625 delay if I'm doing my math correctly. So the wep becomes a 15/16.625 with stunning blow. The fist is 9/16 before haste and 9/10.64 after.

So is the whole idea of using fist/SoS flawed? I know tons of monks do it... am I doing something wrong in the calculations?

[Metallikus]

i roll around with ac / sos unless i don't want to tank then ill go fist / sos.

[Ele]

You are leaving out the damage bonus which is applied each time a fist hit goes off, and the fists will swing more than 3 times versus 2 swings of AC (16.625/10.64). The more swings also means more double attacks, which means more damage bonus. Fist also equals more melee push.

[Treats]

Originally Posted by Nordenwatch [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know that the epic fist is ridiculously fast, but if you think about the amount of haste percentage that you have you benefit much more from the haste by having slower weps.

Adamantite Club - 67% haste = 14.970059880239521 delay

Epic Fist - 67% haste = 9.580838323353294

It does not matter how fast or slow the weapon is.

The delay reduction factor is the same, it does not matter what the delay of the weapon is.

10 delay weapon - 0% haste = 10 delay = 60 swings per minute
10 delay weapon - 100% haste = 5 delay = 120 swings per minute

20 delay weapon - 0% haste = 20 delay = 30 swings per minute
20 delay weapon - 100% haste = 10 delay = 60 swings per minute

Only the ratio of the weapon matters but as has been stated the damage bonus does increase the DPS on slower weapons because it is being applied more often.

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are leaving out the damage bonus which is applied each time a fist hit goes off, and the fists will swing more than 3 times versus 2 swings of AC (16.625/10.64). The more swings also means more double attacks, which means more damage bonus. Fist also equals more melee push.

Except that damage bonus also scales with weapon delay, does it not? Double attack has nothing to do with anything. Yes, you swing more times with a lower delay weapon, but double attack does not increase this ratio at all. Do all weapon types push the same? I seem to recall blunt weapons pushing more than others, but this may have been an urban legend.

[Treats]

More double attack chances will give you more times to apply the damage bonus.

50% chance to double attack - 10 damage bonus:

20 delay weapon = 45 swings per minute = 450 damage

10 delay weapon = 90 swings per minute = 900 damage

[godbox]

might have misread your post but i think what your doing wrong is SoS (or AC) mainhand and fist offhand. Pretty sure thats backwards

[Nordenwatch]

Originally Posted by godbox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

might have misread your post but i think what your doing wrong is SoS (or AC) mainhand and fist offhand. Pretty sure thats backwards

That's not what I'm doing at all

[Nordenwatch]

Originally Posted by Treats [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Adamantite Club - 67% haste = 14.970059880239521 delay

Epic Fist - 67% haste = 9.580838323353294

It does not matter how fast or slow the weapon is.

The delay reduction factor is the same, it does not matter what the delay of the weapon is.

10 delay weapon - 0% haste = 10 delay = 60 swings per minute
10 delay weapon - 100% haste = 5 delay = 120 swings per minute

20 delay weapon - 0% haste = 20 delay = 30 swings per minute
20 delay weapon - 100% haste = 10 delay = 60 swings per minute

Only the ratio of the weapon matters but as has been stated the damage bonus does increase the DPS on slower weapons because it is being applied more often.

Yeah the delay reduction is the same, but higher delay weps generally have higher damage and a better ratio for being slower. For example: 15/25 (ac) or 17/28 (sos) is a .6 ratio and a .607 ratio respectively, while the epic fist is a .56 ratio. (9/16) And since the delay itself is larger, the reduction of time between swings is larger per haste percentage point. 1% of haste for a 9/16 wep is 0.08 delay off, while for a AC its 0.125 delay off.

While damage bonus is being applied more often, does it offset the difference in damage bonus that exists between a higher delay wep and a lower delay wep? I'm not entirely sure what dmg bonus fists have but I assume its fairly low cause the delay is so low.

[Nordenwatch]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are leaving out the damage bonus which is applied each time a fist hit goes off, and the fists will swing more than 3 times versus 2 swings of AC (16.625/10.64). The more swings also means more double attacks, which means more damage bonus. Fist also equals more melee push.

Does double attack really work like this? I was under the assumption that even if double attack goes off, if the delay of the offhand hasn't been refreshed yet it wont swing with the SoS or AC or whatever you're using in your offhand.