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Old 04-12-2019, 11:17 AM
1asdfasdf1 1asdfasdf1 is offline
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Default Enchanter "DPS"

What I see:
  • Charm breaks (as intended)
  • Healer blows 1/4 or more of their mana (hope they weren't OOM!) keeping enchanter alive while enchanter regains Charm.
  • Repeat

Would that combination of wasted mana from the cleric, and potentially wasted mana from the enchanter, not be better served just rolling up nuker?

Charming is "fun" but I also see the landscape littered with the corpses of enchanters.

General XP grinding charmed pet DPS is a waste and an unnecessary risk. Change my mind.
  #2  
Old 04-12-2019, 11:39 AM
branamil branamil is offline
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The ench and cleric both have to be alert with quick stuns if charm breaks. If neither of them are stunning or the ench has poor pet control in general it is worse for the group, yes.

But if they are both good, the pet will do the most damage by far and XP will be faster.
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:43 AM
stebbins99 stebbins99 is offline
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As someone who has grouped with a charming enchanter quite a bit, here's my insight:

*A charmed, hasted, weaponized pet can mow through mobs really fast compared to the damage output from player-characters of similar level

*If you have a tank, a pet described above with the ability to backstab will make things go even faster

*Enchanters definitely die more than other classes, but they are also the most-powerful member of the group when charming

*I've seen an enchanter and cleric duo mobs and parts of dungeons that groups of 4-6 PCs (without the CLE/ENC backbone) struggle to defeat

That said, if maximizing DPS from the ENC *isn't* your #1 concern, enchanters definitely still have roles to fill without charming-- crowd control being the chief among them. My same ENC buddy will sometimes just use an animation (and make sure to get hit once) if we simply feel like having a more laid-back EXP grind without the risk of breaks. Slower exp? Yes. But also very safe. Classic risk vs reward!
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Old 04-12-2019, 11:57 AM
Legidias Legidias is offline
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1 seb frog pet, hasted, out damages a whole 6 man melee group.
  #5  
Old 04-12-2019, 12:06 PM
1asdfasdf1 1asdfasdf1 is offline
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FWIW On my enchanter I'm doing very long-running charisma studies of charm duration. I have a macro to /con the mob before charming, and /g or /say what my charisma value is. (Hardcoded in macro). Later, when parsing, I'll be able to say "1000 blue cons to Enchanter level L with Charisma C has charm duration of D."
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:26 PM
commongood commongood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1asdfasdf1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
FWIW On my enchanter I'm doing very long-running charisma studies of charm duration. I have a macro to /con the mob before charming, and /g or /say what my charisma value is. (Hardcoded in macro). Later, when parsing, I'll be able to say "1000 blue cons to Enchanter level L with Charisma C has charm duration of D."
Cool that you’re collecting data. A word on your method: mobs conning blue is sadly not a terribly useful metric. A mob one level below will con the same kind of blue as one there is three levels below you. That difference in level - from what I understand- will have a big impact on the chance of charm break at each tick.

I understand that establishing exact levels of mobs will be nigh on impossible if you plan to collect data constantly and so can see this method as decent but just be aware that your results will be influenced by mob level and you’re only data market will be that the mob is blue
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Old 04-12-2019, 01:28 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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Back in the day i was pretty good at not even getting hit by my charm breaks on most breaks.. You always sit about the same distance from the charmed pet and you can get into a rhythm of exactly predicting when to use your AoE stun. Outdoors and in some dungeons you can sit far enough to even get the mez off without a stun. The cleric can also be on the ball with the level 4 stun only has a 1.5 cast time.Cleric will almost always have pet targeted and should be able to pull the stun off in most instances before reaching the enchanter.

If you are lower level, I can see why you'd think charming isn't that great. it's pretty much pointless until the 30-40s and even the it's only so-so. It gets better with levels.

I'd recommend duoing with a necro or druid in places they can charm at the lower level ranges if you want to charm. insetad of healing your pets you just kill them off and exp is going to roll in a lot faster than cleric/enc duo
  #8  
Old 04-12-2019, 02:51 PM
Jauna Jauna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1asdfasdf1 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
What I see:
  • Charm breaks (as intended)
  • Healer blows 1/4 or more of their mana (hope they weren't OOM!) keeping enchanter alive while enchanter regains Charm.
  • Repeat
1.) go to the bathroom before even logging on your enchanter or get used to peeing in bottles
2.) You are not a "netflix and dps" character, you will have to remain high alert for the duration of your play session
3.) gatta be a quickdraw on tash/stun/recharm
4.) yeah sometimes the sun, moon and stars align to fuck you in the ass for charm break/bad pull/mez fading/resists at the same time
4.1) rune/zerk yourself(they stack). rune3 for general purpose, rune 4/5 for higher risk/raid stuff
5.) always be in the proper level range, be it the place you are exping in to your charm target. a level 38 enchanter in CoM is ganna have a bad time. A level 35+ enchanter in MM charming a dancer(level 25) wont be optimal when ghoulish anclites(31-33) are superior

Dont try and talk yourself out of charming and giving up one of the highest damage classes in the game because you had a bad day
  #9  
Old 04-12-2019, 06:16 PM
Rimitto Rimitto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jauna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
4.) yeah sometimes the sun, moon and stars align to fuck you in the ass for charm break/bad pull/mez fading/resists at the same time
I don't think you're going to change his mind with that line of context. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I will however agree that with all the constant BS that can go on, that 99% of the time whenever an enchanter dies it IS because of this very reason, ergo why I don't use the charm spell either... It's unreliable and only usable at lower levels during corpse runs. #UtilitySpell

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jauna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
5.) always be in the proper level range, be it the place you are exping in to your charm target. a level 38 enchanter in CoM is ganna have a bad time. A level 35+ enchanter in MM charming a dancer(level 25) wont be optimal when ghoulish anclites(31-33) are superior

Dont try and talk yourself out of charming and giving up one of the highest damage classes in the game because you had a bad day
your last point here struck a cord with me. I don't think level ranges are the most simple formula to work with on this. I've actually had some very interesting charms on yellow monsters that worked out great before, and some on green that ended horribly and me quitting for the day.

I don't think charm is entirely based on just levels/stats. I feel like there's a hidden stat people haven't discovered and some are just luckily stumbling into it, then claiming it as "the best thing ever" when it's coincidental benefits.
  #10  
Old 04-12-2019, 08:12 PM
Wallicker Wallicker is offline
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Is this a troll? Ever charmed a mermaid or icy servant in SG? The former double backstabs for 700 and quads in the 200s, the latter quads for nearly 300s has 55pt DS and has 20k hp.... cleric has to use two CHs on that bad boy! Either one will out DPS a pair of ToV heated rogues and has 5x as much HP. Well worth the risk if you have a competent enchanter and cleric! Power of charm scales exponentially with level. Starts being worthwhile around lvl 23-24 with osargen in HhK and familiars in MM in a group. Oh and beastly Torklar Battlemaster in unrest. Then there’s the 20k hp bloodmaw in GD lvl 20.
Last edited by Wallicker; 04-12-2019 at 08:22 PM..
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