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  #31  
Old 05-14-2019, 05:42 PM
Thorondor Thorondor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rimitto [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
at level 22 here's my adivce.
Go spam quests until you get to 24, buy the next level animation pet and feel OP again. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

20-24 is the FeelsBadMan time of animation pets where the HP value drops off, the damage value drops off, and they are 3 dagger costs per summon.. can get costly inventory-wise.

What I personally did to get past that gap was doing bandit sash quest. It wasn't the best exp in the world but gave tons of money and was fairly easy compared to charm kiting and dying over and over again because RNG decided it hated me 80% of the time instead of that 20% of the time everyone remembers as being "good".

charm is honestly just not worth it below 29. Too much risk vs no good rewards. Quests are really good at the power gap of 20-24, so I suggest hitting up any you can do fast/easy that give you "some" exp.

When leveling Throndor, my first toon on the server, I used animations off n on throughout the leveling process. Soloing with Charm wasn't really viable without a GGRing, didn't have the money for sow pots so I was often base runspeed and that just wasn't a risk worth undertaking until mob DPS scales far beyond the sword pet post-30.

Charming was pretty much reserved for groups where I could rely on healer support.

I would advise untwinked toons use animations as a primary, and reserve charming for situations where you have the support of a group, or to serve as the puller in the group atmosphere until they get 200+CHA which seems to be the magic number on this server for charm stability.

Being able to chain-pull a dungeon while the melee just hop from mob to mob turning attack on is a bigger contribution to the group than anything else, and will take you a lot farther once you can do it while also keeping a pet charmed for DPS thru the 50s grind, but I tend to play a dirtier chanter playstyle where ill just wantonly pull mobs 3 or 4 at a time on the group and deal with the challenges intrinsic to swarming endless parades of mobs into the camp as they arise.
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  #32  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:37 AM
Sacer Sacer is offline
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Soloing for exp on a chanter is just never efficient, I would be really curious how breaking charm and nuke for full exp compare to just haste/torch a pet and just concede half the exp. Pretty sure it would be close at least in the areas where you can't mana tap constantly.

Just duo with literally any class and it will make your life so much easier and the exp will be better, plus it's fun to figure out how to make the best of weird duos.
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  #33  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:08 PM
Thorondor Thorondor is offline
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Originally Posted by Sacer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Soloing for exp on a chanter is just never efficient, I would be really curious how breaking charm and nuke for full exp compare to just haste/torch a pet and just concede half the exp. Pretty sure it would be close at least in the areas where you can't mana tap constantly.

Just duo with literally any class and it will make your life so much easier and the exp will be better, plus it's fun to figure out how to make the best of weird duos.
Yep.

At earlier levels, I would think duoing with a druid may outshine duoing with a shaman/cleric due to the snare on pet and mob. You wouldn't want to heal the pet anyways. Just throw two mobs at each other, invis to break charm and finish both off snared as necessary.
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:32 PM
Crawdad Crawdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Soloing for exp on a chanter is just never efficient, I would be really curious how breaking charm and nuke for full exp compare to just haste/torch a pet and just concede half the exp. Pretty sure it would be close at least in the areas where you can't mana tap constantly.

I just want to show a quick comparison for what "efficient" can mean. My baby Enchanter is currently killing dwarves in Kaladim. Here's how it breaks down compared to a Necro using Splurt (which is silly mana efficient for its level) against the same mobs:

Enchanter:
Charm-195 mana
Tash- 30 mana
Root x2-60 mana
Discordant Mind x2-480 mana
Two dead mobs for ~765 mana/383 mana each

Necro:
Splurt x2-480 mana
Enstill x2- 120mana
One dead mob for 600 mana, plus minor pet damage to finish it off

Charming is obscenely mana efficient. Will you have charm breaks? Sure, but its comparable to other classes dealing with full resists (and pour one out for classes who worry about partial resists).

Quote:
Just duo with literally any class and it will make your life so much easier and the exp will be better, plus it's fun to figure out how to make the best of weird duos.
I 100% agree, duo'ing is much more fun and easier. But Enchanter soloing is silly efficient unless you can kill without using mana.
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Last edited by Crawdad; 05-15-2019 at 01:35 PM..
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  #35  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:58 PM
Izmael Izmael is offline
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You forgot to factor in charm breaks, fizzles, resists (hello enc nukes) and runes. Also downtime sitting regening HP because you lose some every once in a while.

I don't know how much more efficient is ENC charm soloing than necro root/rotting. Necros have a bunch of pretty good spells, and many of them rarely resist if at all.

But yeah, bottom line is, duo with literally anyone for fun and profit.
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  #36  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:00 PM
Crawdad Crawdad is offline
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Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You forgot to factor in charm breaks, fizzles, resists (hello enc nukes) and runes. Also downtime sitting regening HP because you lose some every once in a while.
Yes, my example is a best case scenario for both. I didn't include charm breaks or fizzles for the ench, and I didn't include lifetapping or roots breaking for the necro. My point is comparing the efficiency of Ench charming versus another efficient solo'ing class. ~400mana for one kill on the Ench versus ~600 mana for one kill on a Necro is a pretty big discrepancy.

Turn it into a short play session: 6000 mana to kill 10 mobs as a Necro, 4000 mana to kill 10 mobs as an Enchanter. I don't know how often you might need to re-Rune/nuke/reset, but I have a hard time believing its 2000 mana's worth.
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Last edited by Crawdad; 05-15-2019 at 02:13 PM..
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:20 PM
DMN DMN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
You forgot to factor in charm breaks, fizzles, resists (hello enc nukes) and runes. Also downtime sitting regening HP because you lose some every once in a while.

I don't know how much more efficient is ENC charm soloing than necro root/rotting. Necros have a bunch of pretty good spells, and many of them rarely resist if at all.

But yeah, bottom line is, duo with literally anyone for fun and profit.
You also won't always be getting the mobs down to the right amount of health to one shot them with your nuke.
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  #38  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:36 AM
Sacer Sacer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I just want to show a quick comparison for what "efficient" can mean. My baby Enchanter is currently killing dwarves in Kaladim. Here's how it breaks down compared to a Necro using Splurt (which is silly mana efficient for its level)
I am sorry but root/rot with dots is not crazy efficient, even if you're a necro using splurt, it's actually the slowest way to level a necro. Fear kiting would be a more fair comparaison where you get a lot of free damage from the pet, all the strong solo classes have a form of free damage.

Also you take the perfect scenario, where mobs are 46 or lower so you use the lvl 39 charm, you only need 1 nuke to finish each mob but in reality sometime it takes 2, that or you play risky and sometime pet will die geting you no exp. Also charm will sometime break so you have to cast expensive buffs on yourself constantly to absorb damage and that slows you down as well.
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  #39  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:34 AM
Crawdad Crawdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I am sorry but root/rot with dots is not crazy efficient, even if you're a necro using splurt, it's actually the slowest way to level a necro. Fear kiting would be a more fair comparaison where you get a lot of free damage from the pet, all the strong solo classes have a form of free damage.

Also you take the perfect scenario, where mobs are 46 or lower so you use the lvl 39 charm, you only need 1 nuke to finish each mob but in reality sometime it takes 2, that or you play risky and sometime pet will die geting you no exp. Also charm will sometime break so you have to cast expensive buffs on yourself constantly to absorb damage and that slows you down as well.
The person I quoted and theorycrafted for earlier didn't say what they meant by "efficient" so I assumed mana. Root rotting isn't time efficient, but it is mana efficient. Fear kiting is quicker, but fear+snare+multiple dots cost more. You get free damage from your pet, but you still need to out damage it for full Exp.

You might need more than one nuke/rebuff/recharm, but again I don't see it costing more than the numbers I posted earlier. I'd really dig it if someone who disagrees with me posted some kind theorycrafting/logs instead of just saying "Well what about resists/fizzles/charm breaks?" since these are all variables nobody can control. Resists/breaks happen, but I don't believe nearly as often as people are suggesting.
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Last edited by Crawdad; 05-16-2019 at 10:38 AM..
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  #40  
Old 05-16-2019, 10:43 AM
DMN DMN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawdad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You might need more than one nuke/rebuff/recharm, but again I don't see it costing more than the numbers I posted earlier. I'd really dig it if someone who disagrees with me posted some kind theorycrafting/logs instead of just saying "Well what about resists/fizzles/charm breaks?" since these are all variables nobody can control.
No one can control them but they are much more frequent and costly in both mana and health than root rotting with necro DoTs.. You are also not going to be getting away with using root as an enc soloing at higher levels. Mobs just have too much life.
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