Shadow knight aggro

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spamming taunt also provides the 8.33% bonus to taunt successfully, so it provides more value than just 10 hate/minute. I am not sure why people keep omitting that.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I gloss over it because as far as I can tell the quoted part only appllies to situations where the tank is being rather lazy and doesn't care much if something flips once in awhile. In more normal gameplay where you're holding aggro fulltime, the odds of the spammed taunt doing anything more than adding the +1, is essentially zero per cent. Maybe that's why I'm less hostile towards you, here, than some other posters: I'm not interpreting this type of taunt usage as something to do when you're acting as tank for content like chardok queen (which I've done, so between Snaggles and I, I guess that means we've done it all), but for when you're doing second-tier content you don't care about and putting in only cursory effort. You have to be losing aggro *a lot* for that ~8% chance to apply, which would normally be defined as poor gameplay for a knight, except where we're already aknowledging that it's more like lazymode.

For things like saving taunt for charm flips, taunt's more like a mana-saver for the knight than a life-saver for the enchanter. If your enchanter needs your taunt to work to save his bacon, he's already as good as dead, given taunt's failure rate. In practice you're using other spells too, and a taunt success means you don't need to cast as many to build a threat lead.

It all goes back to my first comment I made: In practice in a solo tank setting on a paladin/shadowknight you can get away with using taunt however you want because it's not that important a skill to begin with. Use it carefully, use it with wild abandon, use it for goofing off, take it off the bar, won't matter in the end.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Penish [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

look at this dude, just unhinged on his 18th page, lawl

Another troll post for your history. You aren't hurting me or helping yourself. Hopefully you learn to stop trolling one day, but at least you are making it easy for people to see that you are a troll.

You are the unhinged player who is willing to group with people in game under false pretenses, just to try and capture footage of them making mistakes. Be wary of playing with Penish in game.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not interpreting this type of taunt usage as something to do when you're acting as tank for content like chardok queen (which I've done, so between Snaggles and I, I guess that means we've done it all), but for when you're doing second-tier content you don't care about and putting in only cursory effort. You have to be losing aggro *a lot* for that ~8% chance to apply, which would normally be defined as poor gameplay for a knight, except where we're already aknowledging that it's more like lazymode.

This is correct. People seem to forget that this thread is asking about agro generation in general. OP did not ask "What is the optimal strategy for keeping agro on Chardok Queen?"

There is little opportunity cost in spamming taunt in most gameplay situations, since a properly played Knight shouldn't be losing agro often in the first place. Spamming taunt gives you a bit of free agro and a chance to taunt automatically if the mob does happen to lose agro on the rare occasion.

I am sure even the most experienced tank has accidentally blown taunt's cooldown in a critical scenario. This still isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. With taunt's 6 second cooldown and high failure rate, you would be planning on taunt's failure anyway. You wouldn't be pressing taunt on Chardok Queen and hinging your entire tanking strategy on the assumption of a success.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is correct. People seem to forget that this thread is asking about agro generation in general. OP did not ask "What is the optimal strategy for keeping agro on Chardok Queen?"

Forum participants have a tendency to assume discussion is aimed at the bleeding edge. It's why so many "raid considerations" bleed over into the lower-end part of the game. It's why you get players thinking that if Knights don't tank Avatar of War then they must not be able to tank in Unrest. Look at how you have another poster casually suggesting that most or all knights will be bagging their epic for other better 2-handers that are seemingly awarded at character creation. That kind of mindset is so far removed from the normal experience of the majority of players that it may as well come from another planet.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's why you get players thinking that if Knights don't tank Avatar of War then they must not be able to tank in Unrest.

I'll take Things That Never Happened for $500, Alex.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll take Things That Never Happened for $500, Alex.

Danth isn't literally saying that people are suggesting that Knights can tank AoW.

My understanding is that he is saying that people often use the argument from authority fallacy.

"I've tanked x content, therefore I am right."

"You haven't tanked x content, therefore you are wrong."

Or he is referring to the idea some people have that Knights don't have Warrior discs, therefore they can't tank content. Obviously there is content that needs Warrior discs, but the vast majority of content does not.

[Vexenu]

The idea that spamming taunt on cool down is advisable because you might get lucky and coincidentally hit it right when you lose agro is one of the most insane tortured rationalizations I've ever come across, even judging by DSM standards.

Let's consider a metaphor:

Imagine your doctor offered you a weekly subscription to a magic pill that would immediately cure a cold, on the condition that it be taken within a few hours of symptoms first appearing. For our purposes this pill is named Taunt. Unfortunately, Taunt has a very short shelf life, and only lasts for about a week and then must be disposed of (consider this a 7 day "cool down"). So with your subscription to Taunt you only ever have one good pill on hand at a time, and in order for it to be effective you must be prepared to take it within a few hours.

By DSM's tortured logic, he would just take the Taunt pill immediately upon receiving it every week, even if he currently has no symptoms, under the justification that he theoretically might get lucky and arrest a cold right as it begins by sheer luck. This, of course, would leave him without the pill for the remainder of the week, during which he would be entirely unprotected should his symptoms emerge during that period. Obviously, this is not an ideal approach.

Hopefully this metaphor illustrates the foolishness of DSM's reasoning and will cause him to reevaluate his thinking on this matter. Any takers on that bet?

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Danth isn't literally saying that people are suggesting that Knights can tank AoW.

My understanding is that he is saying that people often use the argument from authority fallacy.

"I've tanked x content, therefore I am right."

"You haven't tanked x content, therefore you are wrong."

Or he is referring to the idea some people have that Knights don't have Warrior discs, therefore they can't tank content. Obviously there is content that needs Warrior discs, but the vast majority of content does not.

no shit.

im saying nobody thinks knights cant tank regular stuff

[Guesty07]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, we all agree on that. Nobody in this thread ever said otherwise lol. This thread is a classic example of trolls like yourself getting worked up over strawman arguments fabricated out of thin air.

Showing the benefits of spamming taunt is not the equivalent to saying one strategy is better than the other. I simply disproved the basleless claim that spamming taunt has no value, or has a significant opportunity cost here https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=140 .

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...9&postcount=14 My position on page 2 is the same one I have been saying this entire time. Please learn read what people are saying. Also learn to stop trolling.

Spamming taunt and saving taunt are both viable strategies. With that being said, taunt shouldn't be relied upon in the first place.

Originally Posted by Keebz View Post
So in your mind, spamming it and hoping to get the timing right is better than deliberately timing it right?



DSM said - "Often times it can be, yes. It frees up your brain to focus on other things. If you need to save taunt and use it strategically every 30 seconds because the rogue is constantly taking agro, you have bigger issues lol. Saving or spamming taunt is not the problem in this group."

[Guesty07]

You are the only troll in this thread that lies, makes narratives up and changes the goal posts. If only your first post in his thread had said, "saving taunt for when needed is the best idea. But I like to spam it, and here is the reasons why-" people would have been like, huh, cool. And we could have saved ourselves 20 pages of nonsense. Troll.