JBB, is it really that good?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unfortunately there’s no data to say that FSI will save you over the 80-160 extra regen hp in a 1-2 minute long pre slow situation. Especially given the fact that the best solo artist shaman was a barbarian. This is why people tend to favor regen over FSi. It’s something hard and measurable. We know it will give you more hp. We don’t know if FSI will ever actually do anything. And I don’t think there’s a documented case of it ever saving someone’s life. If it’s not saving someone’s life, it’s more of an annoyance if anything. We don’t even know if will allow a shaman to get a solo off faster. Since turgurs has a 6 second recast time.

There isn't any data to show that extra HP/Regen will save you either[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You actually need to record a fight and check moment to moment how much HP you would have with and without Regen. Even if you can point to a specific point in the fight where you would be dead if you didn't have the extra HP/Regen, that doesn't take into account the fact that you probably would have played a bit differently due to noticing your HP being lower.

In reality both FSI and Regen have a very small percent chance to save you from dying specifically throughout the duration of a fight. You don't need data to understand this point. It is simply a non-zero percentage that is small in both cases.

FSI is better with Torpor because FSI can ALSO make the pre-slow phase of a fight easier (the first minute or so). Being able to land a slow a few seconds earlier (due to not having to recast it because of an interrupt) can easily save you 100s of HP due to having the mob slowed a few seconds earlier. This could be the difference between having to gate, and stabilizing the fight.

Nobody is claiming Regeneration or FSI is required to beat content, so the point about the Barbarian is irrelevant. We are simply determining which racial is better, not which one is required. Neither are.

[skorge]

It’s funny you guys are debating racial traits this far into the server. I had this same debate on these forums way back in 2010.

I used to think that regen was the better trait to have. So, my first toon here was a troll shaman (he’s level 60 now). When Red launched I was there and rolled an ogre shaman. I actually dinged him all the way to 60.

I then bought a 60 barb shaman account bound at firepots way back when u could buy accounts. So, I have experience on a level 60 ogre, troll, and barb.

I am here to tell you that FSI is the best trait to have if given the chance to have it. It’s not only best for high end mobs but also when you are farming green and weaker blue mobs. Why? Because it means you never have to worry about recasting a spell, which in return means less clicking, which in return means better quality of life.

As a 60 barb with epic farming in Droga, those gobs can interrupt your clickies. Not on an ogre. It means you can play very lazy on an ogre shaman which is good when you multi tasking.

FSI saved my ogre shaman quite a few times as well while on Red. FSI should be looked at it’s main value which is better QOL. Every interrupt you have on a troll, iksar or barb, an ogre doesn’t have.

I think people who argue against FSI just have not played an ogre to 60. Level an ogre to 60 and play it some and then evaluate it again

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No math in actual post saying FSI is good.

Originally Posted by p1999warriorguide

mobs get their secondary attack every 8 seconds, bash instead instead of kick 75% of the time, hit 50% of the time, and stun 50% of their hits. So if the mob isn't hasted you'll be spending roughly 2 seconds out of 40 (5%) of your time stunned. Depending on how fast your weapons are, that's some 2-3% of your threat and damage (your weapons will be ready as soon as you aren't stunned, so you don't lose all of the time) which isn't gamebreaking but is certainly nice.

Yeah, I remain unconvinced. The numbers don't lie.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Sakuragi%27s_Warrior_Guide

Talks about QOL but conveniently leaving out the fact you'll suffer from permanent wisdom deprivation, clogged artery impersonation in dungeons (have fun with shrink, nerd), having the largest amount of stat loss due to overcapping (lol, how's that 140 str now?), vanilla regen status, and the lowest tier scores on fasionquest.

I play all humans, and I do so knowing that they may not be the *best* because I like fashionquest. That's based.

You play Ogre because you think it's the *best*, despite the sacrifices you need to make for a sh*tty 5% margin that is entirely situational. (Also bash still interrupts spells a portion of the time despite being immune to the stun potion. Which as you can see, doesn't even happen all the time for non-ogres when they're bashed too) That's being a mouth breather.

In short, get wrekt.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by skorge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

. Every interrupt you have on a troll, iksar or barb, an ogre doesn’t have.

Fake news which questions the validity of your entire post tbh.

That said, i agree FSI is super convenient for when tanking a whole bunch of mobs.

[ya.dingus]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fake news which questions the validity of your entire post tbh.

That said, i agree FSI is super convenient for when tanking a whole bunch of mobs.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If you're tanking a wall of at level mobs, you're dead.

If you're tanking a wall of green mobs, if they're beyond a certain range their bash not only rarely hits, it also doesn't stun.

You guys would know this if you played any race other than ogre, or did your homework on the actual game mechanics.

In short - you can chalk this to another demonstrably false situational statement that ogre players love to regurgitate in an effort to supply a never ending stream of copium for inhalation so that they can tolerate looking at their character thinking sacrificing 90% of their play quality for 5% of a margin is a good trade.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If you're tanking a wall of at level mobs, you're dead.

If you're tanking a wall of green mobs, if they're beyond a certain range their bash not only rarely hits, it also doesn't stun.

The thrust of what you say is true, but come on, it doesn't just flip between one state and the other. There is a middle ground of levels where mobs can have a chance to stun you AND you have a reasonable chance of surviving a few of them.

Not relevant to ogres, but you'll occasionally see low level clerics grabbing a bunch of weak xp mobs, to kill them with repeated word of pains. From my observations they have to take steps to mitigate their lack of FSI - they kite the mobs into a ball (which also helps to circumvent the cool down on PBAoEs), let the mobs all get into melee range at the same instant and then after that first wave of attacks/bashes they begin to cast their pbaoe.

Is there scope for JBB shaman to adopt similar tactics? Are ogres better because they don't need to eat the first wave of attacks? IDK. I'm not sure how relevant killing swarms of greens / very low blues with JBB is tbh (since JBB is the context of the discussion).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If you're tanking a wall of at level mobs, you're dead.

If you're tanking a wall of green mobs, if they're beyond a certain range their bash not only rarely hits, it also doesn't stun.

You guys would know this if you played any race other than ogre, or did your homework on the actual game mechanics.

In short - you can chalk this to another demonstrably false situational statement that ogre players love to regurgitate in an effort to supply a never ending stream of copium for inhalation so that they can tolerate looking at their character thinking sacrificing 90% of their play quality for 5% of a margin is a good trade.

I am not sure what you are talking about here. I play Ogres and non-Ogres. You don't need to tank multiple mobs for FSI to be good. It's really simple:

https://youtu.be/igpbLuNe0ls?t=440

If you look at the video, I get bashed at the end of casting Turgur's Insects. My cast GOES THOUGH.

https://youtu.be/uEgFcImQ9XU?t=18

To get an idea of the DPS of an unslowed WW Dragon, I take a total of 993 damage during those two slow attempts. Average damage per second was 138. This means if I got interrupted on the first (Bravatar) video, I would have taken hundreds of damage trying to recast slow again.

So FSI saved me hundreds of HP in this specific case, more than Troll Regen would have given me during the pre-slow phase. Once the mob is slowed Troll Regen is irrelevant, as it is too slow to save you 99% of the time. The other 1% of the time both FSI and Regen has a small chance to save you, depending on luck.

WW Dragons take an average of 15-20 minutes to setup, pull, and kill. That means you are killing 3-4 Dragons per hour. Troll Regen will save you 4800 HP per hour, which is saving you 1.5-2 minutes worth of Torpor. That isn't enough to get more kills per hour unless you are playing for 10+ hours.

This is why FSI is better with Torpor, and Regen is better before Torpor. It's really simple math. Level 60 Torpor Shamans aren't generally clearing hordes of greens/blues, because their spell kit is better suited for going after high power single targets. You generally make more money too.

[FickleFiend]

Does FSI prevent push interrupts? Can't stand Ogre so honestly don't know.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by FickleFiend [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does FSI prevent push interrupts? Can't stand Ogre so honestly don't know.

No, FSI is only relevant when mobs bash you. Bash has 3 components:
1. Damage
2. Chance to interrupt spell
3. Chance to Stun (100% chance to interrupt spell)

FSI removes the chance to stun. This means you always have a chance to finish casting your spells when you get bashed, you never have to worry about the stun (auto interrupt). This is if you are facing the target. If they hit you from behind, you can still be stunned.

[skorge]

Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

If you're tanking a wall of at level mobs, you're dead.

If you're tanking a wall of green mobs, if they're beyond a certain range their bash not only rarely hits, it also doesn't stun.

You guys would know this if you played any race other than ogre, or did your homework on the actual game mechanics.

In short - you can chalk this to another demonstrably false situational statement that ogre players love to regurgitate in an effort to supply a never ending stream of copium for inhalation so that they can tolerate looking at their character thinking sacrificing 90% of their play quality for 5% of a margin is a good trade.

Homie didnt read my post...I have a 60 ogre, troll and barbarian shaman. I have a 51 ogre shaman on Green now as we speak. I can tell you hands down that the ogre shaman is the EASIEST shaman to play...I can be on the phone, farm mobs with no worry that my epic clickie (or my JBB) wont be interrupted by some green con mob...unlike my barbian shaman who always got interrupted while even farming in Droga! Once you play an ogre you will realize just how annoying and unnecessary that is...

FSI is BIS because it makes playing P99 easier...its lazy mode (well not really if you are fighting higher end mobs lol) basically. Come at me when you have put in thousands of hours on all the races of shaman (I played Iksar back in 2000). If you would have asked me back in 2010 I would have argued for the regen but now after playing Ogre I am owning up to FSI > Regen.

Just to be clear, all races of shaman are equal...you can solo the same stuff regardless of race...im not saying ogre is the best shaman, im saying FSI is the best trait because it gives you an extra level of QoL that the other traits dont match. The regen is really nice while leveling up if you are brand new to the server but then it loses its benefit once you get Torpor...if Torpor didnt exist maybe regen would be better