"Need before greed"

[Horza]

Everyone who disagrees with me is a special snowflake (this is your brain on Fox News).

[DMN]

They closed the politics thread in offtopic, and as you can see horza has the shakes.

[Horza]

I'm not the one comparing pixels to government subsidies and calling people snowflakes, am I?

[Axlrose]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's nothing quite like using Republican talking points to support your argument on a video game forum.

Well, thank you! If I am the Republican and you're annoyed by my words, then what does that make you in the political spectrum?

Throughout this thread, I mentioned certain scenarios that I asked a legitimate question to gauge how hard core is the "greed" among players. I asked about trash vendor items being of value and thus part of the roll? I brought up that players could potentially fight each other to see who is the ~strongest~ to claim the prize. Still seeking an idea on the hard core aspect, I went as far as to create a weighed system question.

And all I got for subtle replies is, "I group, I roll, I roll, I roll no matter what!" Since role playing is a lost art, as you mentioned in your reply to Smellybuttface (interesting name), "Your username says alot about you too". Since I link posted words to potentially real life character actions, if all I gleam is "gimme gimme gimme!!!"...

Thanks again for the Republican shot.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Axlrose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you believe other group members should potentially get weighed rolls for that "phat lewt" or do you believe everyone should be even no matter what?

As an example:

- Member 01 has been with the group for 05 hours.
- Member 02 has been with the group for 05 hours.
- Member 03 has been with the group for 03 hours.
- Member 04 has been with the group for 03 hours.
- Member 05 has been with the group for 01 hour.

And you join this merry band. One hour later, the illustrious and highly sought after Jagged Band drops! Should every player roll just once, or should every member be able to roll per hour they were involved with the group? Thus both members 01 and 02 get 06 rolls, members 03 and 04 get 04 rolls, member 05 gets 02 rolls, and you get only one roll.

Let's assume everybody is honest about their time involved with the group and their overall needs. So which route is fair to you - one roll each or weighed rolls?

A major reason when I used to play this game and went the solo route was too often whenever I did group, some dumb ass would join the group and then they would do nothing except sit there. An item drops, everybody randoms, the dead weight wins, and follows up with, "Oh, my guild needs me." and drops the group. Besides leaching experience, this yahoo took off with loot everybody else could have used.

Most players will at least "try" and help the overall group. But there are players that do jack and fucking shit thinking being in a group is like a government subsidy hand out - they deserve it just because they are special snowflakes. Perhaps their real life bleeds into the gaming world and these special cases just don't know any better, I don't know...

You /ran (however many minutes you've been at the camp). Everyone gets a shot at loot, those who have put in more time get best odds. Doesn't every group do this?!

When you win an item your /ran clock resets to zero.

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Axlrose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, thank you! If I am the Republican and you're annoyed by my words, then what does that make you in the political spectrum?

Someone who thinks it's laughable to use unrelated arguments about welfare queens to persuade people how loot should be distributed in a game.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Axlrose [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you believe other group members should potentially get weighed rolls for that "phat lewt" or do you believe everyone should be even no matter what?

As an example:

- Member 01 has been with the group for 05 hours.
- Member 02 has been with the group for 05 hours.
- Member 03 has been with the group for 03 hours.
- Member 04 has been with the group for 03 hours.
- Member 05 has been with the group for 01 hour.

And you join this merry band. One hour later, the illustrious and highly sought after Jagged Band drops! Should every player roll just once, or should every member be able to roll per hour they were involved with the group? Thus both members 01 and 02 get 06 rolls, members 03 and 04 get 04 rolls, member 05 gets 02 rolls, and you get only one roll.

Let's assume everybody is honest about their time involved with the group and their overall needs. So which route is fair to you - one roll each or weighed rolls?

A major reason when I used to play this game and went the solo route was too often whenever I did group, some dumb ass would join the group and then they would do nothing except sit there. An item drops, everybody randoms, the dead weight wins, and follows up with, "Oh, my guild needs me." and drops the group. Besides leaching experience, this yahoo took off with loot everybody else could have used.

Most players will at least "try" and help the overall group. But there are players that do jack and fucking shit thinking being in a group is like a government subsidy hand out - they deserve it just because they are special snowflakes. Perhaps their real life bleeds into the gaming world and these special cases just don't know any better, I don't know...

This is actually a great post.

And lol at your example because I had someone like that in my group the other day.

But the only solution for that is to replace them or let them roll if they're needed for exp and because you can't make them play better.

And the loot distribution problem also exists in raids that DKP or loot council may not solve. You could potentially use this in groups but dishonesty is a problem from a lack of public records like not being able to prove who got what items before someone joined. So for the sake of practicality in groups I suggest that everyone just rolls on whatever items that dropped while they "contributed", and hope you win instead of the new guy. Its not 100% fair but there's no better solution that I can think of besides changing the way that loot is defined and obtained within the game mechanics. Or blind faith in random players.

The raid loot system for no drop items:
When an item drops that people want for the first time they roll for a spot in line. Highest to lowest decides those spots and its recorded on a public spreadsheet so anyone can verify. Highest roll the first drop. You could potentially cheat this if people aren't verifying it so I suggest that everyone verifies the list for the items they want and with screenshots of the rolls.

When the item drops again, the next person in line on the initial list wins it. Everyone who wasn't there for the first kill rolls for the next spots after that list. Repeat until everyone gets the item.

This means the people who were there for earlier kills get priority, while the rolls determine the order beyond that.

Here's an example: Solmn System for Raid Loot

Droppable items for raids are the exception to free roll because of the main reason that it would be impractical to list an entire raid for every droppable item since everyone would be rolling. And free roll every time without a list would create huge / undeserved imbalances in plat rewards from RNG alone along with the extreme rarity and difficulty of getting those items, unlike "normal to non-raid high tier".

It may be tedious to record or have problems but I spent more time than I cared to on this already. So try it out if you want, whatever.

[DMN]

My question is if that new guy shows up and sits there for 6 more hours and no phat lewt drops, are you going to let them roll on the phat lewt you guys got before he joined?

[enjchanter]

Didnt you guys read the other thread ?

Just roll an enchanter and never be bothered to roll on loot again

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question is if that new guy shows up and sits there for 6 more hours and no phat lewt drops, are you going to let them roll on the phat lewt you guys got before he joined?

No and RNG sucks and that's why I hate it and would never include it in a game if possible. Unless it has thresholds where it automatically drops after a "string of bad luck". Which could even be varied where you have multiple thresholds or rolls that cascade and get more common until a guaranteed drop. But even then.

I farmed warlord for 6+ hours last night because it was ok exp and he didn't drop a single bracer (even though its low level loot, still). Then today I killed him a couple more times, still didn't drop it. Soon as I grouped with someone to duo he dropped it and I lost the roll. Nothing against the guy who won it but @#%%^ RNG. There are better solutions although maybe it still has some uses.