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  #11  
Old 11-11-2019, 07:47 AM
Domo Domo is offline
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I am solo on green, and its like impossible for me to get a MS as long there are people who share their accounts.

Sure I gonna try it and might make some trustfull friend who would do 1 camping shift for me while I am sleeping, but else I see no chance for me to get one.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:02 AM
Domo Domo is offline
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Would be cool if you could store like 20min break time every 60min you're at the EE camp.

So if you camp the EE for 24h, you can log out for 8h without losing your postion.

Dunno, something like that, but it wont happen, so dont take this as a suggestion. Its just wishfull thinking from me
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  #13  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:10 AM
SenoraRaton SenoraRaton is offline
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What if we scrap the entire list idea, and set up the camp like guilds used to do in eq. DKP. Time at the camp not afk aquires dkp. Whoever has the highest dkp when it drops gets the item, a lockout, and loses all dkp. This means the account sharers can amass dkp, but they lose it as well, and I can spend an hour a day at the camp, and potentially actually get a manastone. Time invested is directly rewarded.

This feels "healthier" from a real life perspective than expecting people to sit at their computers for days on end for virtual pixels. I understand, I have done it, doesn't mean we can't innovate.
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  #14  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:19 AM
Endonde Endonde is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I know probably most the people in this thread are actually in the camp with me right now, so I just want to ask whats the solution? Because the past system was FFA first come first serve, and I can't really see a happy medium here for demand vs difficulty.

The staff haven't made this camp hard on us, we're doing that. The spawn rate / drop rate are contested by those with Live experience, but making it easier would IMO just make it so players that need ANY item in the future come to the camp. We'd see not just more manastones, but manastones as a bartering piece for a firepot bind, or sold at the cost of a firepot bind (20k) + some tip change for anyone that runs that FUTURE /list racket.

Right now the majority are here for themselves, their future alts, or a friend. I can't see anything out of bounds for a classic server that bans boxing when it comes to friends sharing accounts. They're helping each other use a single character and gain an advantage FOR that character, sacrificing the advantage in every other scenario in the game that two players would gain playing together. There's only one manastone camp, but there are shorter /list items with harder criteria for those that meet the minimum level, and no one is complaining that two friends who show up at the same time and /list together gain an advantage in surviving a camp while gaining, potentially, DOUBLE the benefit of those without pals.

If they put in the time.

If players make X game mechanic more miserable for themselves, and there is no way of making X more enjoyable for all without removing an aspect of the very thing that drives them to engage in X, who wins then?

The difference between this camp and literally every single raid target in the game is that those people who could care less about raid loot WANT this game changing item and the benefits, and fun, possible from having it. And they're just going to keep showing up and recruiting friends to help - like they do for every other bit of content in this game.

Manastone access at 35 is already rather "punitive" for those that aren't able to grind through when ideal spots are camped or crowded during their play sessions, but making the /list feature available at 25 for Evil Eye would have had exactly the same result of attracting a crowd capable of the content and desirous of the rewards.

There would have been a raid force down here instead of a small group - and the closer this camp gets to a raid force the sooner it will become exactly that - and rules will have to be made clear about some sort of Evileye Greenzone. =P

I'd say that removing the distance limit for people over /list #5 for evil eye specificlaly will reduce the angst greatly. Rather than asking for the content to be further altered, just let it function like AC list or any other popular camp list where the person is informed they need to get their asses to the camp when the person ahead of them leaves. Or do the opposite, those not in the top 20 on the list CAN'T be in Guk and those not in the top 10 on the /list CAN'T be in the camp.

If people are going to make this shit as obnoxious as the p99 raid scene, embrace it and remove the "friend" penalty people are complaining about by making it so those with actual friends that would help them run into arbitrary cut offs even when they list at the same time. Then make it so no 3 people from the same guild can be in the Top 5 at the same time - to just fuck with it further.

Anything the staff can do to effectively limit the distribution of Manastones to people working together will just make the camp even less tolerable the more accessible the camp becomes to the general population.

I have absolutely zero solutions to the "problem" besides removing the limit of range for players, which will just result in everyone listing that can. Thus requiring some sort of middle ground where a "group" listing is introduced and groups doing the camps have some internal order if they're allowed in "camp" zones for /list that reduces friction, or excluded otherwise because they lack the ability to productively interact with dangerous camps - or by debasing the experience of the content by turning it into something it was never meant to be - a mini-raid on trivial content for max level players who carry whoevers ahead of them in line.

Except anything done to keep those gaming the system by NOT joining the list in any way makes the system ineffective, so everyone has to participate when in the vacinity of these camps. The more you try and force this game into a fair mold, the more it breaks, and the /list is an unhappy but tolerable medium as is for every camp BUT Manastone. Which is a camp so fucking fair it hurts.
Well for one thing I don't think changing the range really helps the list system in any meaningful way, it just means more people would be away from the camp not helping kill the mob.

Also I don't think anyone is arguing that the camp shouldn't be hard, it's just that the current system is likely going to get to the point where a single person won't be able to handle the wait time required to get the item. I don't think it's really a good idea to create a system that actively encourages account sharing, because there are serious risks involved with that.
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  #15  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:23 AM
M.J. M.J. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenoraRaton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This feels "healthier" from a real life perspective than expecting people to sit at their computers for days on end for virtual pixels. I understand, I have done it, doesn't mean we can't innovate.
I think it is less expectation and more resignation that /list is a less painful option for those running this box than ever expecting the pixel obsessed to work their shit out and find a compromise. I've gone from #9 to #4, and I could be in for another 20 hours or out of here in 5. Its as RNGesus wills it.
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  #16  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:28 AM
aaezil aaezil is offline
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Grown ass men spending 10-20 hrs not actually playing an emulation of a 30 year old mmo but just staring at the screen waiting in line?
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I tried my hand at rotating with the casuals.
It was at this point I decided to no longer be kind to the casuals as they have extreme short term memory. They did this to themselves, unfortunately.

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No one in A/A cares that you aren't getting pixels. In fact after the last suspension wave the attitude is to stop letting the casual guilds get anything even remotely of value.
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  #17  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:35 AM
M.J. M.J. is offline
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I've rediscovered my own terrible taste in music going through folders not opened since 2014, and watched about 6 movies now. But mostly I annoy everyone around me and feed on their suffering.
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  #18  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:47 AM
Solist Solist is offline
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I've been at the manastone camp for 29 hours currently, and have been awake for a total of 37 or so hours.

I am #2 on the list which means ostensibly I need to continue clicking this check box every 5 to 15 mins for the next 10 to 20 hours straight.

This is beyond unhealthy but it is the only way to get one when the other guys just run a roster and sit in camp doing shifts. Its so blatantly obvious watching a toon LD, come back and cast entirely different spells and sit somewhere else for 6 hours+, then the original comes back etc.

I'm a bit afraid for my health but short of sharing accounts there's nothing that can be done except be at this camp for a minimum of 40 hours (MINIMUM) as the drop rate is so unclassic. Pretty soul destroying I gotta say.

Edit: Not knowing how the afk checks work is kinda shit too, the limits are not clearly defined. Running off for a shit, shower, prepare some fucking dogshit unhealthy meal praying this AFK check doesnt boot me from list is mega aids. Craving for the ability to just switch off for 30mins and enjoy a steak haha.
Last edited by Solist; 11-11-2019 at 08:50 AM..
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  #19  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:48 AM
Jack N Jack N is offline
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I'm looking forward to P99 getting some national news coverage when some nerd croaks from a 120-hour manastone session.
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  #20  
Old 11-11-2019, 08:54 AM
M.J. M.J. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endonde [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Well for one thing I don't think changing the range really helps the list system in any meaningful way, it just means more people would be away from the camp not helping kill the mob.

Also I don't think anyone is arguing that the camp shouldn't be hard, it's just that the current system is likely going to get to the point where a single person won't be able to handle the wait time required to get the item. I don't think it's really a good idea to create a system that actively encourages account sharing, because there are serious risks involved with that.
I don't think account sharing has ever been prohibited on P99, and don't particularly see a problem with it for the same duo opportunities lost when focusing on a manastone. The value of which is enough for you to assume there is no lost opportunity cost from such a setup, or that everyone that is doing as much is boxing or doing the equivalent of by helping a friend. I'm just not seeing the math work out on this complaint unless I presume a greater degree of "cheating" is going on.

From a human perspective I could see a /list cut off after 9 with a second list designed to randomly "reward" those on it a chance at joining a potentially 40 hour long camp. Which would be a cutoff those that design it probably wouldn't want to touch as they become like a blind bartender who is expected to keep track of who should be cut off for their "own" good - but more so for the bar owner and bar tenders potentially on the hook. We had a guy get the stone who said he felt it was bad for his health to stay up for over 30 hours, and I think leaving it up to players to keep at it - or not kill themselves - is probably the better stance.

But like some poster said above about grown adults doing 20 hour camps, they're grown adults. No one has to camp a manastone, those that do just want whats at the end of the rainbow.
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